I guess congratulations are in order for the Men in the Turkish Mediterranean city of Antalya.
I can probably guess that these men are QUITE happy to be living amongst such a population of Russian Ladies.
Turkish-Russian marriages make new ‘melez’ generation
Saturday, July 12, 2008Approximately 10,800 Russian women who live in the Turkish Mediterranean city of Antalya are married to Turkish men, and most of these brides are university graduates, professionals and entrepreneurs. Their children make up a new generation of 4,000 Russian-Turkish ‘melez,’ or mixed, kids — many of whom will enter primary school this year
Gülden Aydın
ANTALYA – HürriyetUpon arrival in Antalya it is difficult not to notice the number of Russians. Aside from the two-and-a-half million Russian tourists who usually keep to themselves in holiday resorts, about 15,000 Russians, 80 percent of whom are women, are living, working and mingling with locals here. Their blonde, thin, tall children are easy to spot in traffic, parks, bike paths and markets. Representatives of this new generation in Antalya, almost all the kids in this large and diverse group speak both Russian and Turkish.
According to official data, 13,000 Russians live in Antalya, but the actual number is likely closer to 15,000. There are 310 active Russian companies in the city, and Russians are either managers or partners in 225 firms. The number of Russians who own real estate in the area is close to 800.
Russian women who settle in Antalya tend to be young university graduates and entrepreneurs. Contrary to many views in Turkey, these women are not hopeless unqualified immigrants who had no choice but to move to Turkey.The women are attracted to the climate, natural sites and easy travel from Russia. According to Mircalol Husanov, the consul general for Russia in Antalya, Russians are qualified, educated people who contribute to the city’s social and cultural life.
No Russian neighborhoodsRussians who settle in Turkey are different from British and German residents. They do not live together in sites or blocs, and there is no Russian neighborhood in Antalya. Russians mingle with locals and try to speak Turkish with almost everyone. They are eager to learn Turkish to run their businesses effectively.
Intermarriage plays a big role. Russians in Antalya are mostly women married to Turkish men. According to the Foreigners Culture and Solidarity Association, or FCSA, in Antalya, there are doctors, engineers or economists among them; however most Russian residents work in the service and tourism sectors.
First generation of mixed kids heads to school
Families want their children to have an education that is valid in both countries. The FCSA offers language courses for Turkish-Russian children and there is a private school founded by Russian Victor Bikkenev. Diplomas from Bikkenev’s school are not, however, valid in Russia, according to Husanov. Right now, there is a preparatory class in the Levent Aydın Anatolian High School’s elementary school department and a preschool class in the Governor Hüsnü Tuğlu Elementary School. In the next school year, Russian teachers will teach 40 children in the first, second and third grade classes.
The consulate plans to open an elementary school in Antalya in the future and to bring in teachers from Moscow.
Priests arrive from Russia for christening
Russians living in Antalya do not have a church. Husanov said, “We know that this is a sensitive issue. We want to buy a lot in Antalya and build a decent church. I hope locals will not be disturbed by that.” For now, Easter and similar holidays are observed in homes. For children’s christenings, a priest arrives twice a year from the Russian church in Istanbul and the ceremony takes place in homes.
Russian women were looked down on in Antalya in the past
Irina Okay is an economist from St. Petersburg. She met Necat Okay in Antalya, fell in love and got married in 2001. She was happy to settle in Antalya and was one of the first Russian women to marry a Turk and settle in the city. Learning Turkish from newspapers and television, Irina founded the FCSA in 2006.
“If my husband hadn’t helped me, our marriage would’ve ended. We Russians who arrived a decade ago were unfortunate in many respects. People looked down on us. We had to explain that we are different, well-educated and sophisticated women. In time, Turkish families have changed their opinions and now they like us.”
Irina’s husband, Necat, is a tourism agent. He describes himself as a typical Turkish man. “I am pro-Western,” he said, “but no matter what I do, I am a Turk. I cannot change my certain way of thinking.” Necat said because Russians are free sprits they are having a hard time overcoming a difficult period. “Some of our traditions do not speak to them.”
The Russian women, however, are different from Westerners. Due to the dire circumstances Russian-speaking countries have experienced in recent years, said Necat, if a Russian woman is happy in her marriage she tries hard to save it.
Arina Yılmaz, 36, from Siberia, holds a university degree in quality control and has lived in Antalya for seven years. Her husband Ethem is an exporter. The couple met in Russia. Arina came to Turkey three months after Mr. Yılmaz returned to Turkey. They have son a four-and-a-half-year-old son, Timur. “I can say that I am happy; we tolerate each other’s choices.”
Elena Durmuş, 35, studied economics at Moscow State University. Her husband is a contractor. Their son, Armağan, is seven-and-a-half years old. Their biggest worry is his education. “There should be multi-language schools in Antalya. Why is only English being taught here?”
Natalia Çelik was a hairdresser in Moscow. She arrived in Antalya 11 years ago as a tourist and met her husband Hasan. They have been married for three-and-a-half years and have two kids, Timur Paşa, 8, and Asya, 2. Natalia misses Moscow a lot and visits once a year.
Janna converted to Islam
Dr. Janna Doğancı from Moscow married Ata who runs the Savoy Hotel in Konyaaltı. Janna works at the hotel’s beauty center. They met in 1996 while Janna was on vacation in Antalya. Janna will soon become a Turkish citizen. She converted to Islam after reading the Koran in Russian. “After we met we waited awhile to get married. In the meantime we have tried to figure out how to overcome the difficulties we face as a couple.”
‘Shall we visit babuşka?’
Nadia and Adil Kürşat Ayhan run the Lidana Hotel in Konyaaltı. Their son Deniz is 3 years old. They have been married for six years. Nadia is from the city of Krasnoyarsk, Siberia. They visit her mother in Siberia after the tourism season ends; Nadia’s parents visit Antalya during the summer. Nadia asks her son, “Shall we visit ‘babuşka’? He replies, “Da!”
She said, “I haven’t become a Turk yet.” Her husband jumped in, “If she had, we wouldn’t be happy.” To the question “Are you in love?” Nadia replies in laughter, “Like a dog!” Nadia knocks on wood, a common thing to do in both the Russian and Turkish traditions to avoid spoiling a good situation. “When I came here I didn’t even consider marrying a Turkish man. But we were so in love and it was impossible to let that go.”
The FCSA has 100 members. They help Russians with the marriage process or to find a home in Antalya. The association introduces Russian and Turkish cultures. (Phone: (0242) 324 5235 – okayirina@yandex.ru).
(You can read the original article here)
Now I know that this resort town and that Turkey in general are very popular tourist destinations for Russians.
It seems that Turkey has done a very smart thing and not hampered the movements of these ladies with any restrictive visa regimes and that has allowed this positive development to happen.
Wouldn’t it be great if other western countries like the US, Canada, UK or Australia had the same attitude?
One can only wish.
But in the meantime places like Antalya might be another pretty good vacation spot to hangout in during this time of year.
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that is a smart hint, my friend:)
and an intresting article!
I must agree. I know Turkey to be a very popular Vacation spot for Russians so it does not suprise me that there would end up being a population of Russian-Turkish couples. I can’t imagine any man that, once seeing and interacting with a Russian woman, would want any other from then on.
It is a truly sad that the US cannot be more open to easing restrictions on Russians wanting to enter the country. The vast majority of them would be educated in a university, cultured, and proud people who could really make a differance in this country. Yet about the only way for them to even be able to enter the country is on a rare student visa or to meet someone and enter on a finacee visa. Yet the US will almost give away citizen ship to other countries to people who have very little to give in the way of experience or education.
It says so much about the average Russian or Slavic citizen how they adapt to other cultures yet maintain their own. Rather than force their culture on others.
Jacque LeMoose, have you heard of the intresting phenomenon that Russian never built ghettos abroad? I mean the “true” Russian, not Ukranians or else. Russians never club together and do mix well and ejnoy the host coutry.
Apparently the reason is the one mentioned above – the ones who go abroad are mostly well educated and cultivated people, they want to socialize on the other than nationality reason.
Although I am of Ukrainian and Russian descent, I’m American born and raised. Now that you mentioned it Axina, I have yet to ever hear of any Ukrainian or Russian ghettos here, but there are plenty of ghettos composed if immigrants from places all over the globe here in the U.S. Many are “no-go” zones, especially if you’re white unless you live for danger. My father blended right in here, but never forgot his heritage or where he came from. A very interesting and good observation on your part.
Taras
I recently saw a Frontline special on sex slavery. A lot of east European women get tricked into accepting jobs in Turkey only to find that they are sold into sex slavery. Apparently, Turkey is a major haven for the sex slavers. Everyone should see the show. It was illuminating but very sad as thousands of east European women are forced to prostitute themselves in clubs or private houses in Turkey.
Axina that’s a heck of an observation and your right.. Thanks for putting that out..
Rich,
Sex trafficking is a major problem world wide. The situation is no less severe in Asia, Africa, South America, etc..
I’ve never been to Turkey but I know well enough that all places have their highs and lows.
I have no doubt that this is a real problem in Turkey but it needs to be looked at against the entire scope of the huge tourism draw that they have for Russians in general.
And any kind of travel like this is a good thing. Especially since Turkey is a relatively inexpensive destination for them and may very well serve as their first “bridge experience” to the West. Which interestingly enough is a role that this region has served for centuries.
Thanks for your comment..
GL
I had the opportunity to spend a week in Antalya Turkey with my now Russian Fiance’. We actually stayed at a resort on the Med. in the town of Kemer.
Several of the staff at the resort commented on having Russian wives. I was even blessed to meet the Russian wife of a shop keeper not far from the resort. It was quite an experience for the shop keeper to speak to me in English, his wife spoke in English to me and Russian to my Fiance’.
For my fellow Americans… If you get the chance, go to Antalya! It costs on $20 for the Visa upon arrival in Turkey. And a good resort for 2 is really cheap!
GS
Hi GreyScale..
Thanks for sharing your experience. And congratulations to your and your finace’
Happy to hear you had a great time in Antalya and it would be really nice to hear more of what it was like..
Please tell us about your fiance’ too!
GL
Brighton is an Ukrainian Ghetto. I don’t know off any Russian ghettos. Good story.
Thats perfectly racist : “Their blonde, thin, tall children are easy to spot in traffic, parks, bike paths and markets.”
I mean hello, who the hell told ‘em all Russians are blonde? Whats the sourse? Tirkish daily news? I’m not slightly surprised then, I actually know one little boy whos father is turkish, he’s not nearly fair haired.
Kisha
I noticed that too! Russians are not only blonde.
Kisha there is not any spot of racism in Turkey its not like in Russia.and we know that Russia is multiethnical country even there are people speaking Turkish. they just try to show that there is now a new melez generaton is coming.you dont need to be offend.we have also a lot people who looks like Russian.So its not a new thing
Because of tourism there is a lot interaction between Russian and Turks.There is a different attraction i think. Also i have a Russian girlfriend who i met in New York. we get on well so far.
Antalya is a great city,İ am travelling here for some years,as i also meat here my love,we get married soon,and now İ am also here,in Antalya.İ am not russian,İ am ukrainian,but is no metter.love connected people,no metter the nationality.
Wish good luck to verybody in our sunny city!
Hello Anna!
It’s very interesting to hear about other people experience living in Turkey. I would appreciate if you could tell us more about your daily activities there and adaptation process. I’m Russian and my boyfriend is Turkish. We currently reside in the US but we also thinking to move to Turkey one day. It would be nice to know what perspectives Russian women have in Turkey regarding jobs and business opportunities. We will be visiting Antalya this summer and i can’t wait for it to happen since everyone I know is in love with this beautiful place! I also want to make new friends while I’m there:)
Dont marry Turkish men ladies! My friend was seduced by the “charm” of a Turkish man and has been the product of severe physical abuse. This would be bad enough but it seems that this is not an isolated instance. Many Turkish men are possesive, unfaithful and sexist. Of course, the Turkish men put on a good show for women in the dating stages but often change once the woman has been conquered. The above article makes it sound as if there are thousands of happily married Russian women with Turkish men living normal family lives. Although this may be true for some for others marriage to a Turkish man is a violent nightmare.
I don’t think this is something to celebrate being that Turkey and Turkish culture is hostile to Russia especially at the present time.
When Russian women marry Turkish men and convert to Islam they annul there Russian identity and adopt that at the present a hostile and alien culture.
I would not be surprised if some of these lovely ladies are courier to groups residing in Russia.
John,
I don’t think you’re right about hostility, I haven’t noticed anything like that in Turkey. They are generally nice to foreingers.
Russian women who marry Western men also give up there identity also adopt an alien culture.
Sorry I didn’t mean in Turkey itself I meant Turkey supporting fascist pan-Turkish nationalism not just in Russia especially the North Caucasus but throughout Central Asia and regions of China as well as the Balkans supported by western intelligence using Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Pakistan as a proxy as well as financial support from Mid East and North African Muslim states.
Turkey has been the primary backer of Chechen terrorism even training foreign jihadist and militants in army bases in Turkey and acting as a transit point for fighters through Georgia to fight in Chechnya against Russian forces.
Turkish citizens at least they used to openly train in Turkey and fight in Chechnya with full support and assistance of the Turkish military and intelligence services.
The US even documented there was a network linking camps in Afghanistan with Turkey and Chechnya in there 98 DIA IIR report.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/15/551916/-Sibel-Edmonds-Case:-The-Central-Asia-Islamization-Cocktail:-Mosques,-Madrassas,-HeroinTerrorism
This is what “ Al Qaeda” really is who the terrorist connected to attacks in Europe and Washington are connected to organisations and banks that have a long history of supporting terrorism in Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya.
The 20th Hijacker for example Zacarias Moussaoui was a recruiter for Muslims in Europe to fight in Chechnya for Khattab and the REAL original 9/11 attack was a traditional hijacking not targeted towards the US per se.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a96hijackerschechnya#a96hijackerschechnya
So when the inevitable civil war occurs will they be an asset or a liability? I believe the latter will be the case.
When they convert to Islam they essentially disregard there Russian identity and form a covenant and especially with Turkey a hostile one at that towards Russia which is not the same as adapting to western culture/society.
i think you are sick.Hope god will help you
Its just a thought Eray, but if you want any respect at all for your ‘opinion’ then don’t you think that some form of intelligible response is in order?
You’ve made a statement of zero consequence for the simple reason that you offer no dispute to previous posts by others, no personal justification for anything you are saying and most of all you haven’t even made any clear sign of who or what it is that you find so “sick”.
The value of a blog site comes from intelligent interaction between people who either agree or disagree with the topics at hand or the diversions presented within those discussions.
Who is “sick”? Why are they “sick”? Who or what needs God’s help? What are you talking about?
@Eray Peker
Really? Well I guy Russian, US and French intelligence, FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds and Turkey’s own domestic court system is “sick” as well.
The aforementioned Judicial Watch account of the DIA report notes that:
“A good deal of information concerning OBL’s and al Qaeda’s efforts in Chechnya, the Caucuses, Crimea, and the Central Asian Republics is covered in the (report). The confirmed existence of a [secure, reliable, terrorist-sponsored] “direct route to Chechnya from Pakistan and Afghanistan through Turkey and Azerbaijan” is a stunning “information point” within this (report) – especially in light of the date of the information, 1998.”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/story/2004/nov/defense-intelligence-report-details-al-qaedas-plans-russia-chechnya-and-wmd
A 2008 article in the UK Times, “Al-Qaeda kingpin: I trained 9/11 hijackers,” about Louai al-Sakka confirms the existence of the terrorist pipeline through Turkey to Chechnya.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2936761.ece
(Sakka’s) story is also one of a globetrotting terrorist in an organisation that is truly multinational.
The Chechens needed trained fighters. Sakka was telephoned by Ibn al-Khattab, the late militia leader controlling the foreign fighters against the Russians. Khattab requested that Sakka’s trainees should be sent on to Afghanistan for military training because “conditions are tough”.
One of Sakka’s chief roles was to organise passports and visas for the volunteers to make their way to Afghanistan through Pakistan. His ability to keep providing high-quality forged papers made Turkey a main hub for Al-Qaeda movements, his lawyer says. The young men came to Turkey pretending to be on holiday and Sakka’s false papers allowed them to “disappear” overseas.
Turkish intelligence were aware of unusual militant Islamic activity in the Yalova mountains, where Sakka had set up his camps.
Some of Sakka’s account is corroborated by the US government’s 9/11 Commission. It found evidence that four of the hijackers – whom Sakka says he trained – had initially intended to go to Chechnya from Turkey but the border into Georgia was closed.
Sakka’s lawyer said: “Just like there is money laundering, there is also terrorist laundering and Turkey was the centre of this.”
If you actually read the articles I posted citing references from various mainstream press and authoritative sources you know I am telling the truth which this criminal government in Russia tells us nothing of this I had to find all this information from the few western sources that reference it in passing.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Using US terrorism court document cases and mainstream news articles corresponding with a Russian commentator on a forum I am attempting to send him documents to see if he knows any lawyer friends who would be willing to bring lawsuits against the individual’s, banks and organisations as well as countries financing and supporting Chechen lead terrorism in the North Caucasus but also terrorist groups in Eurasia.
The problem is so far I am having trouble finding free software that will covert PDF documents preferably or word documents from English into Russia.
“Hope god will help you”
We don’t need god but I think he is on our side.
Turkey suffer terrorism much more than many other countries.40.000 people died in last 20 years and this terrorists are usually financed from europa.There are thousand type of people in Turkey.you cant blame anyone just for a few individual.in our Iraq border there are many terrorists from other nationalities also brand new weapons usually found there so should we blame also others?.The Al Queda also attacked in Turkey.what is your point? you dont need to show me anything.you can find any point of wiev.it is just related what you want to see
Also people dont marry each other because of religion or nation.they marry because of love.To call a nation terrorist or the one marry with them traitor is some example of sick thought for me.
Turkish people are not hostile to any nation.Come and see yourself if you wonder.
Well done Eray,
No one could have expressed the reality as much as you did. Turkey is a friend to every nation. Which ever nation is in difficulty, Turket runs there to help.
If Turkey had wanted to prevent Russian-Turkish marrianges, It could have done it very well. But Turkey respects ”LOVE” between a man and a woman even if they are from different cultures or religions. Please read the history of OTTOMAN EMPIRE. You’ll understand much better.
Eray and JohnUK,
Obviously, terrorism is an international problem, and it needs to be addressed as such. For good and bad reasons the United States first began to confront the problem unilaterally and not in the comprehensive fashion necessary. Any action is expensive and in these times beyond the means of any single country. I encourage you guys to quit squabbling and address the real enemy as best you can.
@sam r ogilvie
Ever heard of Sibel Edmonds?
JohnUK,
She, as much as anyone, has confirmed that terrorism is universal. My countrymen, and “foreigners” in government positions have proven that they will do most anything for money, sex, fame and power(freedom is an after thought). What’s new? When it comes to human nature, there is simply nothing new under the sun.
@sam r ogilvie
In the near future 1-2 years from now with Russia it will become apparent and you know what I am talking about.
“The usual pattern,” says Sen. Grassley. “Let me tell you, first of all, the embarrassing information comes out, the FBI reaction is to sweep it under the rug, and then eventually they shoot the messenger.”
Special agent John Roberts, recently retired as a chief of the FBI’s Internal Affairs Department, agrees. And while he is not permitted to discuss the Edmonds case, for the last 10 years, he has been investigating misconduct by FBI employees. He says he is outraged by how little is ever done about it.
“I don’t know of another person in the FBI who has done the internal investigations that I have and has seen what I have, and that knows what has occurred and what has been glossed over and what has, frankly, just disappeared, just vaporized, and no one disciplined for it,” says Roberts.
As you know, John, these quotes from Sen. Grassley and Agent Roberts were in reference to Sibel’s experience with the FBI.
Though, I don’t share many of her political views, Rep. Virginia Foxx is a friend and former customer, and I trust her judgment on this matter. In a telephone conversation, she said(and I quote her), “Sam, the problem with national security/intelligence is not due to lack of personnel or funding, but the fact that people aren’t doing their damn jobs.” Even though claims were made about the lack of personnel fluent in Arabic, it has been proven that the staff available either did not do the work necessary or were not allowed to do the work necessary(see Sibel).
It’s obvious that public officials, across the spectrum, have not served the people well, and it is well-documented. Once again our leaders have pledged to deliver better government, not more government. Regardless of party, I support them in that effort. We have all enjoyed many blessings and advantages, and it is our duty to work in that direction.
@sam r ogilvie
Sibel did do her job and Ashcroft gagged her for it for speaking the truth for what she has said at least in regards to support of terrorism is supported by other sources.
Terrorism is not universally (at least the so called “Al Qaeda” terror network they have a specific goal and objective and it is primarily targeted towards Russia.
Islamic terrorism is on the payroll of western intelligence who work with private military contractors like MPRI who leading up to 9/11 were running terrorist training camps in the US.
In August 2001 in Pennsylvania a terrorist training camp was set up there.
How do you think for years Islamic militants are there multi-million dollar organisations banks and NGO’s were/are able to operate with impunity?
How do you think the 9/11 hijackers despite being tracked by at least 4 different intelligence agencies in Europe as well as the US by the FBI were able were able to enter the US in the first place?
John,
This topic is far off base, and you are making claims that I can’t respond to adequately due to my limited knowledge of the subject. I will claim again that terrorism is a universal problem. A cursory, daily look at the NYT will prove that to anyone. Also, the primary funding for terrorism inspired by Islamic fundamentalists has been traced repeatedly to oil rich countries in the Middle East. Those are well-established facts.
Finally, terrorism, despite its source of inspiration, is despicable, and should be addressed at all levels by a united front.
Some people will find deep, dark conspiracies in the invention of aspirin or bubble gum.
While such theories might provide some level of intellectual stimulation to the self proclaimed hero of the middle class, reality seems to interfere every time.
Ever since the trail of discrepancies surrounding the assassination of John Kennedy, where so many blunders in the cover up were clear and obvious to every intelligent person alive, we have seen shadows lurking behind the scenes of each successive act of terrorism.
Not every horrific act by every half baked, wanna-be martyr is a part of some multilayered, underground with roots traceable back to a billionaire industrialist or the American government.
There is very little doubt that most recent acts of terrorism by most well known terrorist organizations have been financed in no small part by Middle Eastern oil money. The problem is, knowing that fact doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. Like the weather, talking about can’t change it.
How deep and how far reaching any of these money trails go is of absolutely no value to any of us because; a) it can virtually never be completely proven, and b) there isn’t anything that any of us can do about it.
I weep for the families and victims of the cowards who bomb innocent people and pray for our deliverance from such a fate, and then I try my very best to stay informed as to remain an active part of the processes in place which might support the changes and safeguards needed to avoid becoming another statistic. Beyond that, all of these rants about who is “really” to blame are little more than an exercise in frustration and futility.
@sam r ogilvie
If you live in Russia it is something that you should definitely research and be concerned about because when events are set in motion and a serious inevitable and engineered crisis hits Russia and Russia is engulfed in civil war like 1917 you will know how and why.
Trust me this is something you have to research and look into and take seriously before it is to late because what I have predicted so far with the likes of Obama’s (Brzezinski’s) surge in Afghanistan and the consequences that would and has had on Russia and Central Asia has come true.
@Richard
It is not a dark conspiracy theory it is a fact even the Russian government thinks this backed up by numerous sources including the US own 98 Defense Intelligence Report links to which I posted previously.
Even a former Turkish intelligence official recently wrote a memoir were he states what Edmonds has been saying that the CIA through Fethullah Gulen has been supporting terrorism in Eurasia.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302/thread/1294317554/last-1294466688/Islamic+group+is+CIA+front%2C+ex-Turkish+intel+chief+says
Don’t get me wrong John, but please understand that we live in a time of our history where information overload is only eclipsed by the amount of lies and deceptions held within that information. For every story, there are dozens of sub-stories and the vast majority of it is pure, unadulterated B. S.
I don’t doubt you or what you believe are the “facts”, but if there is nothing else that I have seen throughout the years, it is that we can usually trust little more to fact than what we have seen happen before our very own eyes. And since we have now come to a place where even much of that should be held in question, I won’t agree with what someone said was true just because they might have been privy to some portion of what took place.
Again, I’m not denying what you believe, just saying that I don’t think we can trust our sources very much these days.
@Richard
Please do your own research or at least read the links I posted before trying to counter what I have stated.
The “facts” as I read them are the truth given the fact that they are verified by multiple sources including government unrelated and independent of each other over different periods of time.
So my “facts” independent of political slant and commentary in the mass media are true it is not just how I interpret or select information.
john,
Beyond assuming that I don’t do my own research or have not followed the links that you’ve provided, you have apparently missed my point.
Oh well. As I said, I wasn’t trying to dispute any of what you think is truth or fact. I was merely commenting on the state of our information in today’s world.
Believe whatever you like.
John,
The complexity of foreign policy is overwhelming to me. If not for the experience of trying to balance the often conflicting wants and needs of those I encounter in my personal life, I would declare the entire lot of world leaders, past and present, raving maniacs or idiots at best.
We Americans travel the world engaging everyone and never cease preaching the gospel of freedom, and the stability of a democratic republic, yet we prop up and have propped up merciless dictators/tyrants and financed subversives of all stripes. Are we hypocrites? Yes, but to guard and protect our interests and freedom and that of our allies, we allow a “little” suppression here and great brutality there. It’s maddening. It’s part of an imperfect world. I want to point fingers, preach and jump on a high pedestal built of superior ideals and practices, but, then, I look in a mirror and examine my own life. What can one do? So often life involves winners and losers. It seems that the balance between personal interest and the welfare of others is never struck. If I believed this was all there is, I would be a very dark man. I don’t. So, now, I do the best I can and dream of a better place and a better day.
@sam r ogilvie
If you live in Russia you will see in the near future what I am talking about.
Hello John,
Clearly, Russia has challenges. We are familiar with the history of Chechnya, the uneven hand of jurisprudence, the flagrant suppression of free speech, corruption at the highest levels of governance both locally and nationally, and a population accused of racism and homophobia.
The future you claim is unfamiliar to me. I want the best for the people of Russia, and I hope an enlightened majority charts the course.
I have spoken of the dichotomy so many see in my country. Our challenges are great, too. In an imperfect world, we can only ask that our policy comes near our ideals.
@sam r ogilvie
I meant foreign forces acting on the internal developments in Russia not the current domestic situation itself.
As for Russians accused of racism and they will have to be a little if Russia wants to survive as western press and there state affiliated think tanks and lobby organisations like the Jamestown foundation are promoting and supporting the most rascist and ethno centric ethnic groups in Russia and the neighbouring states.
Hello John,
Could you tell us all clearly and concisely what forces are working within Russia? Are they working in collaboration or independently? What are their goals? How would they benefit from such efforts?
It’s more than ridiculous for me to speculate on the matter or even discuss it. But who knows what’s transpiring in this world? Also, in many instances, we have either ignored or labeled as kooky individuals with solid solutions and pertinent information. I will not make that mistake.
Take care, John.
@sam r ogilvie
Could you tell us all clearly and concisely what forces are working within Russia?
CIA, MI6, EU and various US aligned Mid East countries mainly Saudi Arabia financing and supporting Islamic extremism among Russia’s Muslim to the tune of billions.
All the opposition in Russia from political groups to the media, youth groups, “human rights” organisations, etc are financed by USAID, NED, British Foreign office, Soros, etc. the exact same people and organisations that were operating against the Serbs in the Balkans.
Are they working in collaboration or independently?
Overall collaboratively but it is not a centralized structure making it impossible to either control or infiltrate but rather different groups with the same political objective to achieve the same goal of removing Putin from power, NATO in the North Caucasus, etc.
What are their goals?
To overthrow the current regime, collapse the Russian state and engulf it in civil war via Islamic proxy just like they did Yugoslavia so they can carve out Muslim friendly states and split Russia in 3 part Siberia, Caucasus and West Russia as being able to exert an influence beyond its borders mainly in Central Asia were European and Asian energy dependency will be on energy supplies from Central Asia, the Caspian basin and Siberia.
Zbignew Brzezinski father of international Islamic terrorism and the Afghan war trap of 79 lay’s this out in his 97 book The Grand Chessboard.
http://www.takeoverworld.info/grandchessboard.html
http://www.wanttoknow.info/brzezinskigrandchessboard
The economic shock therapy imposed by Soros and his Harvard cronies on post Soviet Russia was not just to colonize the country and strip it of its industrial capacity but to cause a massive demographic shift of a declining ethnic Russian population and a rising Muslim population which they attempted to Islamize through financing mosques, universities, religious organizations, terrorist camps, etc.
In 2008 Andrew Kuchins who used to work for Carnegie Endowment the main western NGO operating in Russia wrote a strategic paper called “Alternative Futures for Russia to 2017” for the Centre for Strategic and International Studies outlining a scenario where after Putin is killed in an assassination the country becomes engulfed in civil war.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302/thread/1295148344/last-1295326177/A+Russia-Watcher%92s+Fairytale+%28overview+of+CSIS+Russian+civil+war+scenario%29
How would they benefit from such efforts?
Control Caspian and Central Asian energy under US/British control for which Asian countries lead by Japan and EU which will be dependent on in the future to power their economies.
Future US backed Caspian pipelines will run through Turkey and the Balkans through western created and backed states of Bosnia and Kosovo to European countries.
What about Han Chinese men are there no Russian women interestsed in relationships with them given that it would be a good bridge between China and Siberia and Chinese development and infrastructure projects in Siberia?
I can’t verify the accuracy of this report but it’s interesting nonetheless as to the issue of Chinese Men and Russian Women near the border towns along Russia and China.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-08/07/content_659034.htm
And here’s an additional topic twist concerning Asian Women dating Caucasian Men.
http://www.topix.com/forum/blogs/TT5H1KMTHBHF82B28
How do you view the Asian Women dating Caucasian Men article?
This might explain it.
According to the survey of 671 men and 869 women, issued by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare, 35.1 per cent of men aged 16 to 19 said they are not interested in or averse to sex, more than double the 17.5 per cent of men in the previous study in 2008.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8257400/Third-of-young-Japanese-men-not-interested-in-sex.html
I think that any Russian woman that willoing goes to a Muslim country is a utter fool. Islam does not respect women’s freedom. There are more horror storiesa bout Russian women being trapped in Turkey because their Turkish husbands restrict their movements and control them. Better to try a Western European, American or Canadian man. At least you know you have laws to protect you if something goes wrong in your marriage!
@Eric
Turkish law is probably on par with European standards although I think it is a huge mistake Russian women marrying Turkish men and adopting Islam when western powers and Muslim states as well as establishment billionaire businessmen like Abdullah Bin Ladin (Carlyle Group) and Bill Gates (Microsoft) mainly through Turkey are promoting, financing and creating terrorist and organised crime networks so they can create a pan Turkish Empire across the Eurasian sphere where Eurasian oil and gas reserves under US and British oil companies will built pipelines though Turkey and the Balkans into European markets.
When the civil war breaks out in Russia which side will these ladies be supporting?
I think the answer is obvious.