Hello GL
I went to Russia last year to meet a very special girl. She is 37 and I’m 53 now. I had the best time of my life, and I have found the girl I want to marry. I still remember the places we went to, and the good times we had. I also remember the night before I had to leave her. As we were laying next to each other in the dark, my arm around her, I felt the tear drops falling. She didn’t make any sounds, but I know she was hurting. She says she loves me very much, and I love her too. She also tells me that if I can’t wait for her, I should find someone else closer. I don’t want any one else. All I want, is to be with her. Could she be telling me that she doesn’t want to wait? I hope not.
Now we are waiting for the fiancée visa, and I know it is a long process. I sent the papers to immigration in May, and they said that it could take up to 6 months. After that, if everything is OK, she will have to go to Moscow to be interviewed at the US embassy there. I have heard that they will try to trick her, so she will say something wrong and not get the visa. Is this true? Is there something we should know before she goes in for the interview?
Thank You for any help you can give us.
Sincerely Allen
Hi Allen,
A Russian Woman who you’ve been dating that is 37 years old is highly unlikely to screw with you. It’s just the opposite I’m sure. She knows that you are a very rare find in her world. A prince from a far away land that’s come to love her in her lonely part of the world.
The fact that she’s concerned that you are waiting too long for her only tells me one thing.. that she deeply cares and loves you UNCONDITIONALLY.
Most of us Men have never had the experience of being loved on this level… When a Woman will love you no matter what decision you make or what path you choose. This is the rarest find in the world and the silent tears of sadness that she had at your parting is only a reflection of her attempt to be strong and to prepare herself for the worst (if it happens) but to still hold out hope and have the ability to feel love in her life.
That is a very tough act for any woman to go through but I’ve seen incredible emotional strength and fortitude in these women that I have never seen anywhere else. My gut tells me that she’s holding her breath for you Allen.
And if need be she might hold it for the rest of her life..
As far as the embassy deal is concerned I don’t know of any tricks but I do know that with this latest International Marriage Agency Law that was just passed they may ask her if she has seen or is aware of any past criminal history or any divorce history that you may have. This is an outrageous law that was snuck through Congress and I urge you guys to visit this site and to voice you opposition to it. In any case if you guys met before it became law then no problem. If not.. then the embassy is supposed to ask her if she’s been notified of your history and if she says no then they might stall her paperwork till it’s cleared up..
That is the only potential pitfall that I’ve heard of.. other then that it’s supposed to be a pretty straight forward deal.
Good Luck and Keep us updated!
GL
Hello,
my name is Bob and I live in the DC area. I’m 46, single, never married and I’ve been looking all over the net for information about Russian women and I finally found it. Thanks for your good informative work! You have filled a huge void out there because only men truly understand men. Since I was a young boy, I always envisioned myself getting married in my 40s or 50s to a girl in her 20s.I have a story I can relate to you and maybe the blog readers, but I don’t know where to respond, so I am sending you this email.
I put an ad on a website looking for roommates to rent out a spare bedroom I had and as it turned out, to my pleasant surprise, I found AK, a Russian student here for the summer. I emailed her and said I studied Russian History in college and it would be cool to have her as my roommate. She asked if her cousin could stay here too, that was MK. When I saw her, I said sure! I don’t need to explain, do I? They were both 21 at the time and I was very impressed with their beauty, strength, work ethic, personalities, English skills, basically everything about them.
I had 2 lovely young girls I could hang out with when we weren’t working. All my friends were jealous of me. I have my own business and they both took waitressing jobs downtown. They were here for 3 months and I ended up having the best time of my life with them! We became good friends only, no romance or sex. I had to restrain myself being around them! They are not into casual sex at all. I acted like an ambassador of the U.S. This turned out to be the best way to act.
I showed them all the sights of DC, took them to the beach in Delaware and we all had a great time. I had heard about Russian women before but I had no idea I would become such good friends with them. I learned a lot from them. They told me I was the best person they met here the entire time they were here and invited me to visit them in Russia. This was 2003. They live in southern Russia in the Black Sea area. I miss them a lot. We still stay in touch by phone and email.
Then, last year, 2005, since they trusted me, AK’s younger sister, TK, came to stay with me for the whole summer, 4 months. She was 20 and had her 21st birthday while she was here. She is even more beautiful than her sister. Since I had become good friends with AK, I told her she could stay here for free. This time I had moved and only had a couch she could sleep on. She never complained! I helped her get oriented and helped her feel at home. TK and I spent a lot of time together before she found a waitressing job downtown. I ended up falling in love with the girl! I took her to see New York and then sadly, I put her on the plane back to Russia. I wanted to get on that plane so bad! It was her first time abroad. She has a boyfriend back in Russia. I really miss TK. It was even better than the time I had in 2003!
I asked all 3 of these girls to marry me and they understand I need a wife. I am a fairly attractive guy but I never really wanted to marry an American girl. They have agreed to introduce me to other girls when I go to Russia. TK said her Mom has a girl she wants to introduce me to. I did a lot for these girls when they were here and they appreciate that. I must go to Russia to visit them. I have been to Europe 6 times but I haven’t been to Russia yet.
I’m glad I’m not one of those guys looking for a Russian wife on a website. Meeting the Russian girls here on student work visas for the summer, becoming friends with them, helping them and being invited to visit them and be introduced to other girls seems like a good way to go. This all happened out of the blue for me and I am convinced I must go to Russia! Time is running out for me to get there this year. I feel like dropping everything and just doing it! I admit, it’s a little intimidating to fly all they way there and not knowing how to speak Russian and it’s very expensive.
I have been learning what I need to do to go to Russia. I need an invitation which has to be mailed from their police station before I can apply for a visa and stay with them while I am there. If you stay in a hotel, the hotel gives you the invitation. You can only stay for 30 days. The visa application is like a job application. It’s not at all like jumping on a plane to Europe I have found out. There is so much to learn and do. What do you think about the women of the Black Sea area? What do you think about Novorossiysk, Anapa, Sochi and Krosnodar? Most people have never heard of these places. What’s the best way to fly there? Should I fly Aeroflot? Any other advise you can give would be appreciated.
I felt like I was man alone out there, but after reading your website I feel like a new man now!
Thanks! I hope you enjoyed my story.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I loved your story and thanks for the compliment.
Bob I hate to say this to you… but next time God smiles on you and decides to drop the next beautiful young Russian girl into your home (which by the way is more then a Million to One chance in a lifetime)..
Do Everyone a BIG FAVOR and DON’T BE AFRAID to PURSUE a ROMANCE with her!
Ouch.. I know that’s gotta hurt especially given all the time you’ve had with them.
There’s an old saying in Russia that applies to your situation and I wish you knew it while you had these girls in your presence.
“In Russia, it’s the Men that choose the Women and not the other way around..”
Now keep in mind I’m not saying you can pull a caveman on any of these girls and drag her by the hair back to your cave.. No you have to consistently Romance them to the point where as a girlfriend of mine says she will break down her resistance and let’s you into her heart. Just make sure it’s the right girl with good character but in your case I don’t think that’s an issue with any of the THREE Girls you’ve lived with!
Jezus.. some guys like you and my Good Ol’ Boy Will down in Houston have all the Luck eh?
You guys didn’t have to brave -40 degree Siberian Winters like I have in order to gain Russian Women ENLIGHTENMENT!
Now the GOOD NEWS is that you already have a KILLER Social Network ready to go which most of the guys reading this post would DIE for if they had the chance. Do NOT waste your incredibly good fortune and your FIRST HAND Knowledge with what these women are like. Just jump on Aeroflot and get you butt over here.
Oh an one more thing.. If you need some additional motivation to make the jump just put this into your head.. Tourists go to Europe.. Real Men go to Russia.. 
The Black Sea area will be just fine for you.. so don’t worry. I used to have a girlfriend from Sochi and she was if you can believe it a beautiful and exotic Las Vegas style showgirl traveling with a Circus! Anyways Sochi is just ONE of the many paradises for Women that exists in Russia and the FSU.
Here’s some advice. If you want to stay longer then Sochi is a cool place because once your 30 day visa is up.. just hop over the border to the Ukraine and go to the Russian Embassy in Kiev to get another Visa and the go back to Russia. As an American citizen you don’t need a Visa to get into the Ukraine so it should all be a piece of cake.
Bob the only problem you will have once you come to Russia is this…
YOU WON’T WANT TO GO BACK TO THE US..
Have you ever seen the movie Star Trek Generations? You know the first time we get to see Picard and Kirk together on the big screen? Remember the bad guy in that movie played by Malcom McDonald.. He was this evil scientist that had lived in the cosmic paradise called the Nexus and by accident he was kicked out.. So he figured that the only way he could get back into it was to destroy entire solar systems with a bomb he invented that would make the Sun go Supernova? Well wanting to get back into Russia is not QUITE that extreme but I’m sure you get the point.
I’ve seen this desire to come back repeatedly time and time again with EVERY guy whose ever come here from the States. Take your awesome experience with having 3 beautiful Russian girls in your home and multiply that by a factor of a thousand and you will start to get an idea. Just be careful not to fall into the “Choice Paralysis” trap that I talked about in my recent post and try to stay focused.
Now saying all of this.. now that you’ve gained great enjoyment and insight from my site and hopefully this reply I would like for you to return the good karma and do the following..
GO FORTH AND SPREAD THY WORD TO YOUR FELLOW BROTHERS WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE LIGHT..
Believe me magical things will happen if you do and also it will make your trip much easier if you team up with some other guys just for moral support or even for an actual trip.
I shouldn’t have to remind you to take lots of pictures when you go but I will remind you to share them here!
Cheers, GL
Hi from Switzerland!
Sometimes there are strange coincidences. I just came back from my first trip to Russia and the girl who was taking care of the house while I was away asked me about blogs (she wanted to open one). Since I was not familiar with that topic we took googles help and for whatever reason your site showed up. What a revelation! I took the trip to Moscow (and St.Petersburg) because I had a free ticket and did not even think about Russian girls (wanted to visit museums
), but I met a beautiful what you would call elder woman (she just got 30 while I was there) which somehow is ok on my side because I am 26 years older. Your descriptions fit one to one. Immediately after I came home I applied for a multiple entry visa and started private lessons in Russian. Not because I fell terrible in love with that girl (it might happen though:)), but because I could feel what you said about Russian women. Great job! maybe someday we meet somewhere in Russia. Until than I stay tuned.
Klaus
Hello Klaus,
You only went to Russia to go to visit the Museums??
Wow what kind of water do you drink in Switzerland my friend?
I like your description of Russian women and how it only took one trip for you to want to get back AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. (see previous post)
But ya.. I think I understand what you are talking about. All it takes is one taste doesn’t it? One small experience with a 26 year old girl from St. Petersburg and as we say in America.. It was all over for you.. Cause right at that moment.. magic happened.. AND YOU KNEW what I’ve been trying to describe to all of you guys all along.
I also loved the way you described just being in Russia and not falling in love with any particular girl. You said you could “FEEL” what I was saying about Russian Women to be true. Gentlemen when you come here this “FEELING” will happen to all of you I guarantee it. And some mysterious part of your manly brain will click and come alive and just simply say.. “This is it..”
Good for you Klaus.. Hope to hear from you soon and please tell those other poor friends of yours in Switzerland to stop drinking that strange water you have!
Cheers! GL
Hello there!
My name is Greg from Sydney, Australia. I just wanted to share my recent experience of traveling to the Russian Federation to meet a woman i’d been communicating with for several months. I’d never been out of Australia in my life, so to travel for like 40hrs to the other side of the world to ‘meet’ this woman i’ve been having wonderful written communications with was a pretty huge step for me to take! Sad thing is, it went pear shaped almost immediately after meeting her! After arriving early hours of the morning in Yekaterinburg after so many hours of flying and ‘waiting’ for connections, a 400ruble cab ride from Koltsovo airport and i was at my ‘hotel’ where reception couldn’t speak English, my cabbie couldn’t speak English and all i wanted to do is get my room and finally sleep! I had a couple of hours sleep and feeling ‘reasonably’ refreshed excitedly made contact by phone with the ‘agency’ to see about meeting my lady that afternoon!
She arrived at the office after me – seemed somewhat cold and aloof. The office manager/translator accompanied us to dinner etc. Hard to tell if it went well, as this woman i ‘thought i knew’ showed no emotion – NOTHING! Anyway, I was to meet her again the next day, and long story short, she bailed and gave some poor excuse as to why she couldn’t make it – then virtually made herself uncontactable and if contact was made with her by the agency, she would not explain why she became like this and was treating me this way! A completely different person to the ‘words’ she wrote in her letters….
One of the ‘lame excuses’ she apparently told the agency (other than she has too much work) was that she didn’t realize how difficult it would be in expressing herself and neither of us understanding the other ones words – Now as an intelligent person, she knew that i knew very little russian before i even booked a plane ticket! Anyway, i tried to make the best of my time in Yekaterinburg, and many rubles/Euros later had met more of their ‘catalogue’ but really found the women to be judgmental and or not what their pictures portrayed.
During this time, the agencies young translator often accompanied me on my ‘tours’ that i’d chosen to go on, and was someone i felt somewhat attracted to – She is in her early 20′s , petite and very feminine, down to earth, absolutely gorgeous and sounds so sweet and sexy – her voice when she speaks in English. I often found myself just wanting to take hold of HER hand when on the day tours with her. I’ve taken some lovely photographs of her, and i could kick myself, because in all the time i was there, i realized after i left Russia she is the one who makes my heart beat faster and whose smile melts me! I’ve written a couple of emails to her since arriving back in Sydney, and she has written me saying that my emails are always welcome! She has given me her personal email address to write her.
My last email to her i wrote honestly about how i felt about her, and that i realized my heart was taking me in a direction towards her and that the heart knows what the heart wants – well, i haven’t heard from her since i wrote that and i’m at a loss as to what to do!! I don’t want to scare her, but i’d already hinted at my feelings for her (very lightly) in other email by saying how i wished i had taken hold of her hand when i was with her for a day excursion. I think she is wonderful, and even though i am in my 40′s, i want to completely win this girls heart!!! I’ve been to Russia, and i want to return and hopefully to be with Tanya! Do i send her flowers? What should i do?
Well, that’s my story….hope i haven’t bored you with it and would appreciate your thoughts and any help for me to win Tanya’s heart and show her that i care very much for her without scaring her and losing her forever. All the pictures in the agencies catalogue and the ‘princess’ i traveled there for who dumped on me – yet right under my nose was Tanya!
Thank you for any advice you may be able to offer me to win Tanya’s heart….
Kind regards
Greg
Sydney, Australia
Hi Greg,
I can tell your heart is really into this girl Tanya and you want to win her over to you and I understand. Now before I get too deeply into this I want you to realize ONE THING. No matter what happens you’ve already scored a HUGE Victory by going to Russia. Because I KNOW and YOU KNOW that the search for your heart and the answer to your soul is HERE. And with this comes much Peace because I’m sure you WILL NEVER look at Australian girls the same way again. So I’m sure that in many ways you are already a FREE MAN.
Ok the first thing I want to tell you is that I can’t read Tanya’s mind and I have very little information to go off given her lack of response to you. However there are some potential scenario’s here.
Keep in mind that it is very common for guys to come to Russia and to fall in love with their interpreter! I mean what else is going to happen when you put a hot young Russian Girl who speaks good English together with a Western Man who’s never been to Russia before and who is looking for a wife! It’s like a EXPLOSIVE Emotional Chain Reaction just waiting to happen on one side or the other.
Now saying this.. having visiting guys coming into town and falling in love with her MAYBE a common event for her due to what I just described. This is one possibility. She maybe thinking “OK.. here’s another nice guy falling for me.. and i don’t know what to do about it…”
Either way you have NOTHING to lose by pursuing it to the point of finding out what the bottom line is because either she will tell you she’s not interested.. OR she is quietly looking for your leadership to see how strong you are as a MAN in pursuing her. Or in other words..
Are you worthy for her Love?
I’ll tell you this. Russian Girls are well aware of guys floating around saying.. “I love you..” all the time so they are especially sensitive to this in wanting to know if this is just a bunch of BS or not. If you really want to take the chance and roll the dice with this girl then by all means do it and see where it leads. But when you roll the dice you will need to dedicate yourself to her so she will see it and believe it. Either way you choose you will either GAIN HER or you will GAIN VALUABLE PRACTICE and Experience which will serve you well in the future.
There is an old saying that every Russian woman knows and is totally spot on for this situation.. and I want you to really absorb this.
“Men fall in love with their eyes.. while Women fall in love with their ears.”
Get it? Good..
Now go out and impress her by learning some Russian phrases. Here are some good one to start with.
I think about you… “Ya duma-you o Te-bya”
You are very beautiful… “Tee O-cheey Kra-see-Vaya”
Practice saying this in a very romantic way.. Hell if you have a pet cat then practice it on your cat first and then see how it responds!
Now go get a calling card that allows you to call Russia for cheap and surprise her with a phone call.
Russian Women LOVE surprises.. So the more surprises you can lay on her the better the odds are that you will win her over.
Men always remember this..
There ARE NO PENALTIES for being Romantic with a Russian Woman as opposed to a Western Woman. Western Woman will often flat out scorn or ridicule you with the slightest hint of interest on your part.
THIS will NOT happen with a Russian Girl.
When Russian girls receive any kind of sincere romance it’s always warmly accepted even if she doesn’t see the man initially as a romantic interest! Romance is a big and special deal here beyond what most men can possibly imagine so that’s why I’ve said before that for most of you guys it’s time to dust off those old ways of doing courtship and start bringing them out of retirement and into active duty again.
Anyways I think I’ve given you enough ammunition to play with for now.. Just be careful where you point that Gun!
Cheers Mate..
PS. Oh and one more thing.. You’ve learned a very valuable lesson concerning what you thought a girl was like through her letters and what she was like in real life. 80/20 rule strikes again.. Only rely on letters as 20% of the courtship process and rely on actual meetings as 80%. The interesting thing about your experience is that you experienced both with 2 different women! Hopefully this is something you are not likely to forget from now on..
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OK GL, i went to the site and signed the petition. so far almost 3500 sig’s. come on guys, lets get it done….
Hey GL, thought i would tell you i’m spreading the word about this site. on all my “log in” accounts i have put your sites address in my “signature” bar so when ever i log on and leave a message this address is in plane sight for all to see. Dave
Dave your one of a kind man thank you.. Google or Bust..
Thanks again..
Hey GL, where can WE find info. on the real russia-? not the tourist crap all the agency’s try to sell you. but information on selected city’s and towns. or on different regions. i am seriously thinking of moving there on a perminent basis and would like more info. on the “real” Russia. thanks, Dave
Hi Dave,
Unfortunately trying to get good information on what’s available here is very poor. Not even the locals have good directory information on other cities.. So it’s actually quite rare for these people to spend anytime traveling to other cities here in Russia like we do in the US.
However the best place to look for info will be with the Russian Search engine service Rambler. Unfortunately it will all be in Russia so I’d recommend that you hook up with someone who knows the language and sit down with him or her in front of a computer.
The other best guide out there for normal tourist would be the Lonely Planet guides that you can buy at any bookstore.
Go buy yourself a very big map of Russia and start getting familiar with the cities and regions. This will help you to start “targeting” where you want to go. You can even cross reference it with girls that are listed on agencies just to get a feel for who lives where and what they say.
Hope this helps ya..
thanks GL, already got a HUGE russian map from Natioal Gepgraphic. i put it on the wall and have pins to stick in it. Dave
Hey, why is Greg from Sydney having such a hard time if most of the other guys suffer from a paralysis of choice? That story sounds a bit discouraging to me.
Hello tyhigs,
Actually Greg’s account proves what I’m saying. The mere fact that he went all the way to Russia just to meet one girl who didn’t work out and then quickly developed feelings for his beautiful and feminine interpreter within such a short period of time just goes to prove my point.
Do you think you could have an experience like that in such a short time frame with 2 girls in your own country?
The problem that Greg had (which many men have by the way) is that they take an enormous risk in travelling to see only one woman with whom they only know through emails without having a trusted 3rd party to verify that this woman is what he is expecting. (This is why I’ve come up with the services that I have by the way.)
At the very least if any man is going to go that route then he should always correspond and meet with a number of girls and not just one.
Don’t be discouraged tyhigs.. if you are seriously looking into this as a means to find someone drop me an email. Cheers GL
Ok, I’ve trolled this blogsite long enough. I suppose it’s time for me to chime in.
First, the boring details. I am in my late 30′s, caucasian male, no kids, and recently divorced from a stunningly beautiful Ukrainian woman. We were married 3 years.
She was 10 years my junior, and beyond that, she was so perfectly designed by God that she appeared 5 years younger than her actual age.
After several multi-year girlfriend/live-in-gonna-get-married-one-of-these-days situations, I just got fed up with my cirumstances and decided to start looking for someone online. At the time, I worked 60-70 hours a week, 6-7 days a week and since I did there was very little time for me to socialize outside of work and family life. Of course, initially it was the usual: match.com (home of the Whopper™), yahoopersonals (lol) , adultfriendfinder (great if you’re the type looking for a prostitute but nothint else), etc. In total, I spent hundreds of dollars on subscription fees, wrote endless profiles, answered tons of ridiculous questions and even had some pictures made that I could upload so I looked my best.
In the end, what was the result? Unbridled frustration.
In all the months I searched online, every person who possessed a combination of personality, physical traits and (of course) geographic proximity who I emailed had a consistent and echoing reply:
(Requisite pause for the cricket noise to play in the background as the stage goes silent.)
I was going nuts. I mean, honestly, I was 32 years old, nearly 6′ tall, in reasonable shape for a person who was strapped to a desk 10 hours a day, made 100k+ a year, had all my hair (still do and it’s not gray), my teeth were straight, and did’t have any foul odors that I was aware of emanating from my personage… I was just so damned pissed off you have no idea. What was so wrong with me that literally NO ONE that I sent an introductory email to would even REPLY to me?
The frustration level reached a boiling point. I decided that I was just doing something wrong. I went to some search engine–probably google–and started trying to find maybe another online dating service that was perhaps the “hidden secret” that maybe only the good women subscribed to, and was perhaps reserved for the really serious and worthwhile people.
I don’t know what came over me at that moment, but something which had ordinarily always made me chuckle at the “mail order bride” sites caught my attention, and I started reading. Then I read some more. Then I started browsing just out of pure intellectual curiosity at some of the candidates in the age, height, weight range (hell they even let you choose kids/no kids, married/divorced/widowed, religion, etc).
Six weeks later I had purchased airfare to Kiev.
A week after that I was engaged.
Seven months after that I was carrying my dream wife, the sweetest woman I had ever met across the threshold and helping her learn English.
For months I coaxed her through her adjustment period, all the crying nights missing family and friends. The drunken tantrums as I came home in the evening late from working all night to find that my sweet, lovely bride who I was so enamored with was in tears and on the brink of collapse mentally.
This woman held a law degree in her home country, was a Ukrainian master gymnast, and an amazingly fun girl to be with. She was able to turn my mood good or bad with just a facial expression.
Soon after she arrived and finished all the stateside paperwork I got her driving lessons and it was not long until she had her very own drivers license and of course, a nice new Toyota key on her keychain.
She needed to learn English, and I helped as best I could. I sent her to University ESL programs, public night school ESL courses, and always tried my best to help her learn the language.
Finally, she was not crying at night anymore. I did not come home to a drunken wife with tearfilled eyes who pleaded with me to help her.
(this is part 1 of 2, continued next post)
Part 1/3
Ok, I’ve trolled this blogsite long enough. I suppose it’s time for me to chime in.
First, the boring details. I am in my late 30′s, caucasian male, no kids, and recently divorced from a stunningly beautiful Ukrainian woman. We were married 3 years.
She was 10 years my junior, and beyond that, she was so perfectly designed by God that she appeared 5 years younger than her actual age.
After several multi-year girlfriend/live-in-gonna-get-married-one-of-these-days situations, I just got fed up with my cirumstances and decided to start looking for someone online. At the time, I worked 60-70 hours a week, 6-7 days a week and since I did there was very little time for me to socialize outside of work and family life. Of course, initially it was the usual: match.com (home of the Whopper™), yahoopersonals (lol) , adultfriendfinder (great if you’re the type looking for a prostitute but nothint else), etc. In total, I spent hundreds of dollars on subscription fees, wrote endless profiles, answered tons of ridiculous questions and even had some pictures made that I could upload so I looked my best.
In the end, what was the result? Unbridled frustration.
In all the months I searched online, every person who possessed a combination of personality, physical traits and (of course) geographic proximity who I emailed had a consistent and echoing reply:
(Requisite pause for the cricket noise to play in the background as the stage goes silent.)
I was going nuts. I mean, honestly, I was 32 years old, nearly 6′ tall, in reasonable shape for a person who was strapped to a desk 10 hours a day, made 100k+ a year, had all my hair (still do and it’s not gray), my teeth were straight, and did’t have any foul odors that I was aware of emanating from my personage… I was just so damned pissed off you have no idea. What was so wrong with me that literally NO ONE that I sent an introductory email to would even REPLY to me?
The frustration level reached a boiling point. I decided that I was just doing something wrong. I went to some search engine–probably google–and started trying to find maybe another online dating service that was perhaps the “hidden secret” that maybe only the good women subscribed to, and was perhaps reserved for the really serious and worthwhile people.
I don’t know what came over me at that moment, but something which had ordinarily always made me chuckle at the “mail order bride” sites caught my attention, and I started reading. Then I read some more. Then I started browsing just out of pure intellectual curiosity at some of the candidates in the age, height, weight range (hell they even let you choose kids/no kids, married/divorced/widowed, religion, etc).
Six weeks later I had purchased airfare to Kiev.
A week after that I was engaged.
Part 2/4
Seven months after that I was carrying my dream wife, the sweetest woman I had ever met across the threshold and helping her learn English.
For months I coaxed her through her adjustment period, all the crying nights missing family and friends. The drunken tantrums as I came home in the evening late from working all night to find that my sweet, lovely bride who I was so enamored with was in tears and on the brink of collapse mentally.
This woman held a law degree in her home country, was a Ukrainian master gymnast, and an amazingly fun girl to be with. She was able to turn my mood good or bad with just a facial expression.
Soon after she arrived and finished all the stateside paperwork I got her driving lessons and it was not long until she had her very own drivers license and of course, a nice new Toyota key on her keychain.
She needed to learn English, and I helped as best I could. I sent her to University ESL programs, public night school ESL courses, and always tried my best to help her learn the language.
Finally, she was not crying at night anymore. I did not come home to a drunken wife with tearfilled eyes who pleaded with me to help her.
Instead, after a couple of years, what I became more and more accustomed to was coming home to an empty house. No note. No phone call. No courtesy whatsoever.
Part 2/4
Seven months after that I was carrying my dream wife, the sweetest woman I had ever met across the threshold and helping her learn English.
For months I coaxed her through her adjustment period, all the crying nights missing family and friends. The drunken tantrums as I came home in the evening late from working all night to find that my sweet, lovely bride who I was so enamored with was in tears and on the brink of collapse mentally.
This woman held a law degree in her home country, was a Ukrainian master gymnast, and an amazingly fun girl to be with. She was able to turn my mood good or bad with just a facial expression.
Soon after she arrived and finished all the stateside paperwork I got her driving lessons and it was not long until she had her very own drivers license and of course, a nice new Toyota key on her keychain.
She needed to learn English, and I helped as best I could. I sent her to University ESL programs, public night school ESL courses, and always tried my best to help her learn the language.
Finally, she was not crying at night anymore. I did not come home to a drunken wife with tearfilled eyes who pleaded with me to help her.
Seven months after that I was carrying my dream wife, the sweetest woman I had ever met across the threshold and helping her learn English.
For months I coaxed her through her adjustment period, all the crying nights missing family and friends. The drunken tantrums as I came home in the evening late from working all night to find that my sweet, lovely bride who I was so enamored with was in tears and on the brink of collapse mentally.
This woman held a law degree in her home country, was a Ukrainian master gymnast, and an amazingly fun girl to be with. She was able to turn my mood good or bad with just a facial expression.
Soon after she arrived and finished all the stateside paperwork I got her driving lessons and it was not long until she had her very own drivers license and of course, a nice new Toyota key on her keychain.
She needed to learn English, and I helped as best I could. I sent her to University ESL programs, public night school ESL courses, and always tried my best to help her learn the language.
Finally, she was not crying at night anymore. I did not come home to a drunken wife with tearfilled eyes who pleaded with me to help her.
Instead, after a couple of years, what I became more and more accustomed to was coming home to an empty house. No note. No phone call. No courtesy whatsoever.
My sweet angel who I had grown to love and feel so much tenderness for had used me. She used me to gain access to the country. She used me to learn to drive, get a permanent resident visa, and learn the language. Her English is now quite good. She got a job as a model for a company that sent her all over the country. That was her first job in America, and all during our marriage we had an open financial system. She had an ATM card to our only bank account, a pin code, and absolute freedom to get anything she needed. My only request was ever that she just let me know if she bought something expensive so I could manage the finances appropriately. I was not about to tell my wife who I loved and respected that she had an “allowance” or some other nonsense.
There is no way to sugarcoat your experience. It is also hard for any of us guys who have shared any similar journeys to avoid asking why you didn’t notice any of the red flags that popped up along the way. But it is not for us to judge your thoughts and feelings or your desire to find a truly meaningful relationship. God knows, as you have stated quite well, local proximity is hardly the answer so why not look somewhere else.
It might be hard to count the number of men who have walked the same or very similar path as you have. Maybe they haven’t all gone as far down that dusty trail, but their hearts and minds made the trip a thousand times. And when you mention delving deeper into the possibilities of a ‘mail order bride’ scenario as “pure intellectual curiosity”, I hope you understand now that you were a victim of the same dream as many others. No matter how we try to word it in defense of our manhood, the truth is we all want to be the one that it ‘works out’ for. And let’s face it, intellectual curiosity has little to do with it.
In all of the time I’ve been reading about, and writing about this ‘foreign love’ phenomenon, there have been a few areas that jump right to the front of the list for deception and scams. Unfortunately, Ukraine is one of the top few. I say unfortunately because I know people who are originally from that region and it hurts them when they see the kind of reputation that their home land is gaining. The people that I’ve met from the FSU are good people with solid values who have come to NA to increase their chances at having a better life. They are hard working, determined people that would do anything for the people they care about.
For all of us guys that are serious about any form of lasting, loving relationship there needs to be a reality check. There are NO shortcuts, gentlemen. NONE. If you are engaged a month or two after meeting someone, seek professional help, IMMEDIATELY.
Every time somebody says, “It could happen”, check to see who they know that it “has” happened for. If their example (should they even have one) is a couple that have been together less than ten years, they really don’t know if it has worked yet, and if the example is someone married more than 20 years, just think about how much social norms have changed in the past two decades. We are talking about TODAY, my friends. Today there are SO few people interested in MAKING their relationships work that your odds of finding one of them is about 1 in 100, at best. That means you might need to actually be “involved” with about a hundred serious attempts in order to find the one that works out. How many of us are even remotely willing to make that effort?
In our twitter run, micro wave, half hour TV special version of reality, we expect everything to happen in a fraction of the time necessary and get pissed off and bitter when it doesn’t. Winning over the affection of your dream girl just ain’t gonna’ happen in a few weeks, guys. Deal with reality. When you see a NASCAR pit crew change four tires and fill a gas tank in 8 or 9 seconds, that’s just professional, roadside maintenance. Those cars and the engines take months of intensive labor and painstaking attention to detail just to qualify. Your flowers and candy or dinners on the waterfront are the things that keep you in the race, but you won’t even be on the track unless you work your ass off and make some serious sacrifices first. Your 98 Dodge might be worth a couple grand if you’re lucky but qualifying for the big race starts at around a quarter of a million. Success is not cheep and it never comes quickly.
Note to self: if the only way to meet a quality woman with any traditional values and so much as a spec of dignity is to leave my own country for a year or two, maybe it’s time to start packing.
In business we used to say, “Observe the masses, and then do the opposite”. Maybe there is a clue there for those of us frustrated to the living end with ‘dating as usual’ in NA.
Another truth that has appeared many times throughout my life is, “If there was a magic formula for making it happen, we would all know about it by now”.
Just a note to the last “truth”: there is a magic formula for making things happen as well as there are reasons why we all don’t know about it by now…
Just a note to the last “truth”: there is a magic formula for making things happen as well as there are reasons why we all don’t know about it by now…
Well, save that happy thought . . . .
The only formula for making “it” happen (as in; relationships that last a lifetime) is something that VERY FEW people in the world will ever see again, and it is not a secret. That formula is completely selfless honesty and total commitment to the other person.
You will never get from life that which you are unwilling to first give.
Why would I tell the magic formula here? Those who are interested always can find me to ask. If someone spends the time on doing it, I will be sure that this person is truly interested.
Finally able to post the whole thing. And I think in my final paragraoph I address just exactly what it is you stated in your “Note to self:”
Final Attempt to post entire story: (last of last)
Unfortunately, when she started to make income her outlook was quite different. She (unbeknowst to me) opened a checking account at a different bank and hid that fact from me until I happened to check the mail and find a bank statement with her name on it. I had asked about her company that she was working for, and was getting quite irritated with them for dragging their feet in getting her first paycheck to her. Apparently, they were having no such issues, and were paying her via wire transfer on time, and in quite large sums. She came home after one trip to New York during the MTV VMA’s wearing a $15,000 Jacob the Jeweler watch. The exact same kind worn by Paris Hilton. She said it was a birthday present from her boss.
Soon afterwards she began sleeping downstairs on the couch.
Soon after that we were making plans for our divorce.
I am not going to say that I was an angel or that I was somehow a hapless victim and had no blame to share in the marriage. However, I will say that I was never dishonest with my wife, and I never cheated, nor did I give her cause to think that I was anything but faithful and concerned about her as both a person and as a wife.
The point to my story is this for all of you out there who are seeking refuge in the Russian wife arena.
Be careful.
If I could wave a magic wand above a crystal ball I would tell you what to look for, but we can never know that for ourselves until it is too late.
My only suggestion would be this after looking back at my relationship these past two years: listen to your gut. If your instinct tells you something is amiss, then it probably is. We in America are the worlds best natural lie detectors. We are trained by Hollywood, and through our observations of subtletlies in facial and tonal changes. Don’t ignore your gut, trust it.
In looking back, I knew within the first 6 months of our marriage that there was something amiss. Something not quite right. If I would have just listened to my gut I could have saved myself years of wasted time, wasted on a woman who had nothing but deceitful intentions from the onset of our relationship.
By definition, marriages to foreign women must be done using only quick decisions. We do not have the luxury of a long courtship to learn the ins and outs of a person. And above all, unless we’re bi-lingual Russian speakers, we have to rely upon the interpretation of a translator at the early stages of a relationship to know what is really being said.
My best advice to anyone seeking a Russian/Ukrainian wife is this–and yes, I’m not against the idea again for myself especially knowing what I know now–learn the freaking language. Take courses at your community college, buy “Russian Course” at Borders/B.Dalton (it’s black and it’s the best self-study Russian book I’ve ever found).
As I write this letter, I have been speaking Russian since I first went to Ukraine in 2003. I started with some CD’s that taught me basic survival phrases and numbers, etc. But it was not until last year, after I had already been divorced a year, that I took formal language training at the University level.
Next year I will be spending an academic year in St. Petersburg Polytechnic University in their language program. I am not going there with the intention of finding a wife, but in the land of Russia anything can happen. I am not going to have to decide to do something in a week, and not going to have to rely upon someone else’s determination about what it is that someone who I might decide to have for my wife is REALLY saying to me as she sits across from the table in a Cafe somewhere.
Yes, I had a lot to say, and I hope you didn’t mind reading my story. It felt good to finally say to someone, even anonymously.
Best Wishes.
It a girl agrees to get married with a person she doesn’t know and understand, and quickly to move to another country, it is food for contemplation.
I would test a girl’s true intentions by offering to settle the family in her native country and to see her reaction.
Hello!
RW Man answered a question of mine last week, and now some things have happened which I am very confused about.
I do have a question somewhere down the page!
I’m 28, traditional American man. Pays for the woman on a date, and usually if just out with a female friend. I’m the type that’ll open doors for women, etc. No smoking, watch my language, very little drinking, physically active.
Background info:
I had met a Russian woman at a party through a group of friends. She is 25, from a small city in northern Russia and has a 1-year work visa, in the child care field. She seemed easy to get along with, I made her laugh a few times, and she seemed fairly straightforward. I asked if she’d like to visit a local attraction sometime, as my guest. She said she would like that, and the two of us went the next weekend. She thanked me before, during and after the trip, as well as the day after – said she had a great time.
So, I asked if she’d like to visit some other place another time, and she said yes again (we went two weeks later since she had to work the next weekend). Same thing; she had fun, and she wanted a picture with me, so she grabbed a stranger to take one.
At the time I met her, I wasn’t really interested in dating someone, having broken up with a long-time friend not long before. But, seeing how this woman was being very polite, grateful, and easy to get along with, I decided to see about dating her – why pass on an opportunity?…so I asked RW Man if this woman, by her actions (in a cultural context), would be open to dating – he said yes, we were practically dating already, that I should try holding her hand next time we went somewhere together, as she wanted to go out dancing with me.
This is where things pick up:
She invited me to go to the capitol for fireworks on Independence Day. I asked who else would be going, and she told me it would be a friend, the friend’s boyfriend, myself, and her. What conclusion would most people come to? Probably that she wanted to spend time with me, no? This is what I thought. I sent her some flowers the day before, and she texted me that she loved them, thanked me, but was also confused/surprised I had sent them…I asked if that was bad…and she said no, it was a good thing, and thanked me again when I told I did it to make her happy.
Things became crazy the day of the trip. I met the three of them, and the Russian woman immediately told us that several other people would be joining our group – none of us knew until that moment. Guess who turned out to be one of the other people? A Russian man who ditched her three years ago, on her first trip to the country, and did not contact her again until recently, to tell her about all the women he met (I found out this from her friends).
As soon as the Russian man (25 or 26, smoker) met up with us (he lives 3 hours away from where we live and so had to meet us at the capitol), he ignored everyone but the Russian woman and myself (I engaged him in conversation, because I don’t stand for that kind of behavior, and we got to talking about various topics – he spoke fluent English).
The Russian woman then ignored us for 90% of the time as well…but she would come and talk to me, and walk with me sometimes before going back to him. They spoke to each other in Russian, so it made the rest of us very uncomfortable and frustrated. Though, when just the three of us were alone, the Russian woman asked me if I wanted them to use English, and they did. We also took some pictures together.
When the Russian woman & I were alone for a few minutes, I asked her if she’d want to go on a date sometime (just to make sure she knew I had been interested in her – there is a difference here between just going somewhere together, and going on a date), and she just giggled and kept walking with me for a little bit – if she was American, that would have been a definite No without any class. After that, she stayed with the Russian guy and ignored everyone else until we had to leave.
Of course from an American standpoint, their behavior overall was entirely rude and unacceptable. Everyone else was mad at her. You don’t invite people to come on a trip with you, and then ignore them; especially if you know one of them may be interested in you. If she was trying to make me jealous about him, it didn’t work. If she was trying to make him jealous about me, it didn’t appear to work, either. It entirely looked like she had some kind of secret agenda.
When we finally came back in the early AM hours, I said bye to everyone and went home. On my way home about 30 minutes later, she texted me asking to let her know that I got home safely, and good night. I’m not responding to her…yet.
And now, I finally get to my question
For those of you who know much better than I do, what do you make out of all this?
As I do know some things about the dating culture in the FSU, I am reserving final judgment until I hear some of your opinions…and then I want to talk with her face-to-face (not confrontational). I have a law enforcement background, so I’ve seen many people give a line, and want to see in person how she explains what she did.
Here is what I know from both this site, and another woman’s website which is probably known to many who read this blog regularly:
+ FSU women are very competitive (some may say vicious) in dating to keep hold of a man who is stable with a good background.
+ FSU women are survivors and will do what they have to do to get that kind of a man.
+ FSU women are thought of as spinsters if they aren’t married around 25 (of course, the woman I met is 25)
+ FSU women are very insecure when it comes to relationships.
+ Men in FSU countries often treat women as commodities, and that the saying is that the man chooses the woman (the complete opposite from here!)
My final thoughts:
Up until this point, she has been very polite, grateful, and easygoing; no drama and nice to talk with. She hates smoking. She has been here about two months; the last time three years ago, and when she was here, it was working at a child youth camp with some other Russians, one of whom she was interested in. I do not think she may understand American dating culture, and appears to be “playing games” when she might just be playing by the “Russian Rulebook” on how to survive in the dating scene (???). I am not saying this is what she is doing; it is only a possibility. If that is true, she is only doing herself harm.
She was interested in a friend of mine before I met her. He is not interested in her due to personality (she is very blunt, and critical of some things). She became jealous when she found out he was talking with a Ukrainian friend of hers. She’s still stuck in the “high heels and fashion attire no matter where you go” mindset. My friend took her to a park, with walking paths through the woods, and warned her to wear comfortable shoes. What did she bring? High heels and white jeans. My friend also uses some explicit language (not cursing – but of adult nature), so she would use some of it around him. She does not use it around me (nor I around her).
So, she may be trying to meet a stable man here, but obviously needs to learn some things if it is the case. She has never made sexual advances toward myself or my friend (she would have been “kicked to the curb” had she done so). At the same time, she could just be a mess and should be avoided. That is why I am here to ask
Thank You for your time.
Hi RH,
You are experiencing a classic misunderstanding in cultures.
I’m not going to write up a big treatise on every nuance right now so I’ll just get straight to the point.
Since she was the one who invited you to the Fireworks it’s her call with who she wishes to bring along so even if an old boyfriend was in the picture this is not something I would take seriously. It looks like more of a test directed at you anyways.
At this point you were only along for the ride.. but you will notice that on your previous dates when the 2 of you were solo you had no problems.
This girl is 25 so she’s certainly looking for a serious mate and she sees you as a candidate but that doesn’t mean she’s not going to test you because all women Russian or not will do this.. and believe me Russian Women are complete masters at testing the true intentions of a Man.
So here’s the deal.. write off the 4th and ignore it since you were not on a date. Don’t “ask” Russian Women to go on a “date” because they will think it’s strange that you need to define and ask it in such a way.
Just ask her out for walks in some beautiful place and then take her for an impromptu meal someplace. And when this happens like I said before just realize you are on a date but never say or use the word.
You are already dating her.. let’s get that clear.
Now you need to romance her.. btw.. never have flowers delivered.. they will think that’s incredibly strange that a man would be “unwilling” to personally present it to her himself when he’s able to do it physically.. always bring them flowers and hand it over to them as if you were passing a small precious baby from your arms into hers.
Tell her your intentions that you are looking for a beautiful wife and family and that you have truly never met a girl like her before. She will put 2 and 2 together. If she smiles, blushes or giggles you are on the right path.
Ignore the old boyfriend mentally.. claim this girl to be yours. If this guy was serious they would have been married a while ago.
You are still in the zone as far as I can tell. I’m pretty sure she understands your feelings and is trying hard to make sure you know she cares.
But bottom line.. aim the gun and pull the trigger if you feel she’s right for you.. Make her understand with your actions and not your words that you are HER Man. Start acting like HER Man and assume the role.
Also one last point I wanted to comment on.. Don’t worry about what shoes a Russian Woman wears high heals or not.. They can walk across mountain ranges in those things and they are used to that in this environment.
Good luck and have FUN..
GL
Hi RW,
Thanks for the reply!
I asked her if she’d like to go to a movie this week. As it turns out, she’s pretty well aware of how things work here in America, and understands the difference between simply visiting places together, and actually dating. Her laugh at me was in a Western context.
Classless; next!
Well, it seems that you have found out in time that she was a westernized version rather than the genuine prize.
Not to contradict anyone else here but I think the best thing to do (if the same situation were to arise again) is to have coffee at a quiet place in the middle of the day and explain your culture to her. The least offensive way to clear concerns across cultural lines is to put yours on the table and see if you are both thinking the same way. You haven’t accused the other person of any misunderstanding and you haven’t tried to tip toe around what you may not understand with them. They then have the opportunity to let you know how things are done where they come from and everyone can grow from the experience. It is an honest, up front way to be clear about your desires and expectations without demeaning them in any way while allowing them the same advantage.
Here is an intersting link about how Russian women get a man
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1534537/Russian-women-taught-how-to-get-their-man.html
I don’t know much about Russian women but I am starting to see that they do think differently then Western women (whether it be the nice Western woman or the mean bitchy Western woman)
Westerngirl,
Gee . . . . . what a “wonderful” link.
A place that teaches women to be deceptive sluts rather than women . . . . . . wow . . . I am searching for ANYTHING even remotely worth while in that sort of crap.
Well, at least it serves as a great thing to avoid in FSU women. A measuring device, if you will. NEVER associate with ANY Russian woman who has sat through one of those classless classes.
Thanks for the warning.
Westergirl,
The link you provided is not interesting at all.
Yes, there is such kind of classes in big cities of Russia and they might be quite popular. But it does not describe Russian Women at all. It shows how unethical some people make money. This classes do exist because this is the business. I feel pity to women who do go to these classes.
I will tell you about another “silent” movement in Russia. I call it silent because you will never find out about it in news. Every single day there is more and more Russian women who rediscover their female nature, build love and happiness with their chosen men, and bring healthy children to our world.
Also these women are not desperate for finding men because the best men are desperate for them. =)
Yes, I agree Richard and Genuine Woman that the articel is not nice. In fact I was kind of shocked about it (though in this day in age I know I shouldn’t be). Of course I am not going to think all Russian women are like this (I am sure not all of them are). That said the actions taugh in this class is actions I never do (nor would I want to). I would hate to be that desperate.
I essentially agree with RW_Man, but I wanted to add a few things.
You had mentioned you and your English only friends were feeling uncomfortable because she and some of her bi-lingual friends were speaking Russian in a social setting. Think about if the places were reversed, and you lived in Russia and she were the Russian only visitor. You would have to speak Russian everyday in most of your daily settings, whereas when you finally got away from the demands of a business, professional, or academic arena you would finally get to relax and speak English. This would not be because you’re trying to hide something from your date, but simply because it’s easier and more natural for you. She offered to speak English around you and your friends, so I would imagine that she realized that it was making you uncomfortable.
As far as the dealing with the old boyfriend thing, you have to understand that for her this was nothing unusual. For an American this seems (even to me to this day) extremely rude and inappropriate, not to mention unbelievable uncomfortable. But you have no real idea what they were discussing, and the most likely thing was that it was him asking for his advice from her on what he should do to not screw up his current relationship: you had mentioned that he sought her out only after getting a new girlfriend. She was probably just telling him all the stupid things he did that screwed up their former life together.
And alas, the high heel thing. Be GLAD that Russian women like to wear clothes that are attractive, it is one of the things that seperates them from most American overweight, sweat pant wearing, flip-flop, dirty feet, hair disheveled, clothes mismatching counterparts. They are women with style, never try to change that because you wouldn’t like it if you succeeded, and you won’t succeed.
Thanks for comments
No, we weren’t English-only. I forgot to put that – my fault. The Scandinavians spoke in English so everyone would be able to understand them, even if they had a few bumps on the way
She did not offer to speak in English in front of everyone; only me. I have nothing against high heels; they do look nice! It’s the idea that she’s going around in high heels for 10 hours straight.
Hello!
I did what Richard suggested (I had been thinking about it already), but instead of sitting down to talk, I emailed her due to availability on her part.
There was a misunderstanding; she thought I wanted a commited relationship. I let her know of course not; we haven’t known each other that long. She said she is “welcome to receive any invitations” to spend time with me as a friend, etc, because she thinks I’m “nice and well-mannered”.
Do you think she is still looking around to see if I’m being sincere, or just take it as-is to think of her as a friend?
I really don’t think she’s here only for the cultural experience. A friend of mine said the women here who have the job that she does, all come from well-to-do families in their home countries. She’s also from a small city, so maybe she could have a hard time finding a stable man back home, from the same class level?
I know she was definitely after that same friend of mine, because she became very jealous when he spoke with a FSU friend of hers, and she confronted him with an “Oh, so you like her now?!” He didn’t like either of them (in that way) in the first place!
Hmm.. Part of me wants to suggest that you get a pocket protector and a handheld quantum computer to go with all that romantic style. And the other part of me is reading her response and wondering if she’s more Vulcan than spock.
The big problem I see is that you’re trying to approach a woman’s heart like it’s a puzzle to be solved. It isn’t. It’s a piece of art to be appreciated. Don’t send email’s at such an early stage of the relationship. If she’s busy, that says something. If you really want to impress her, don’t “send flowers by courier” and “email because she’s busy”…
G O T O W H E R E S H E I S
(point made)
Hi Petersburg!
Thank You for your time.
I’m not trying to analyze and solve a puzzle of her heart
It may come across like that because I’m confused due to, as you said, the way she is responding is Vulcan-like, given her previous behavior. That was a very good comparison you made 
It’s just so confusing when you are the one who is relaxed, and is just having fun, and then the woman appears to kick into analyzation mode.
Most women appreciate 2 things very much; showing them new things/taking them new places, and being there to support them. That is what I try to do. I’m here to make sure there isn’t a cultural mix-up before I do something, to avoid an awkward situation (since there have been 1 or 2).
I cannot go where she is, because it wouldn’t be proper. She lives with a host family and takes care of their 3 little children. Usually, she has to work 6 days a week, with no regular schedule; she doesn’t find out when she has to be in the home until the previous weekend. She is also required to take college courses per her work visa, so after taking care of kids all day, she either has to go to class until 10pm twice a week, or studies during the nights in between.
I used to call her at first, but it’s easier for her to talk with someone in person, or have an email or text message to read (she likes texting). Point taken about flowers; I am 15 miles away but will bring her some for her birthday, even if just as a friend.
Thanks,
RH
From all you’ve said I think the best thing to do next is in your own words, “think of her as a friend”. If anything were to develop down the road you would have a much stronger base to grow together from because of the friendship you establish now. Also, if you are never more than friends, so what. Nobody can have too many good friends.
Side comment: It was my last question about this. I will not be here every other week asking things
If something far down the line comes along which seems like a good learning experience to share, I shall post it.
Thanks
RH