A Feminist Going It Alone With Motherhood
Feminist playwright Zoe Lewis’s decided to confront the bitter truth about her life as an indoctrinated Feminist.
I certainly respect her courage in coming out and denouncing the self-destructive cultural norms she was lead to believe in.
But part of me wonders how many relationships she personally threw under the bus before her age caught up to her and the Men finally stopped coming round?
What kind of future can any woman like this look forward to when they specifically choose to ignore mother nature’s calling and then simply run out of time?
Well let’s just hope that a few more young women out there can read her story and better understand their own path that they must choose.
Oh and one more very important thing ladies..
NEVER underestimate the power that self-destructive feminist propaganda like MTV, TV shows, and the News has over your lives.
Madonna syndrome:
I should have ditched feminism for love, children and baking
A playwright who embraced the feminism espoused by her mother and flaunted by Madonna now feels betrayed
Zoe Lewis
I never thought I would be saying this, but being a free woman isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
Is that the rustle of taffeta I hear as the suffragettes turn in their graves? Possibly. My mother was a hippy who kept a pile of (dusty) books by Germaine Greer and Erica Jong by her bed (like every good feminist, she didn’t see why she should do all the cleaning). She imbued me with the great values of choice, equality and sexual liberation. I fought with my older brother and won; at university I beat the rugby lads at drinking games. I was not to be messed with.
Now, nearly 37, those same values leave me feeling cold. I want love and children but they are nowhere to be seen. I feel like a UN inspector sent in to Iraq only to find that there never were any weapons of mass destruction. I was led to believe that women could “have it all” and, more to the point, that we wanted it all. To that end I have spent 20 years ruthlessly pursuing my dreams – to be a successful playwright.
I have sacrificed all my womanly duties and laid it all at the altar of a career.
And was it worth it?
The answer has to be a resounding no.
Ten years ago The Times ran a piece about my play Paradise Syndrome. It was based on my girlfriends in the music business. All we did was party, work and drink. The play sold out and I thought: “This is it! I’m going to have it all: success, power and men are going to adore me for it.” In reality it was the beginning of years of hard slog, rejection letters and living on the breadline. A decade on, I have written the follow-up play Touched for the Very First Time in which Lesley, played by Sadie Frost, is an ordinary 14-year-old from Manchester who falls in love with Madonna in 1984 after hearing the song Like a Virgin. She religiously follows her icon through the years, as Madonna sells her the ultimate dream: “You can do anything – be anything – go girl.”
Lesley discovers, along with Madonna, that trying to “have it all” is a huge gamble. I wrote the play because so many of my girlfriends were inspired by this bullish woman who allowed us to be strong and sexy. I still love her and always will, but she has encouraged us to chase a fantasy and it’s a huge disappointment.
I may be an extreme case. My views may not represent those of other women of my generation. Perhaps I am just a spoilt middle-class girl who had a career and who has now changed her mind? I don’t think so. This month the General Household Survey found that the number of unmarried women under 50 has more than doubled over the past 30 years. And by the age of 30, one in five of these “freemales”, who have chosen independence over husband and family, has gone through a broken cohabitation.
I argue that women’s libbers of the Sixties and Seventies put careerism at the forefront, trampling the traditional role of women underneath their Doc Martens. I wish a more balanced view of womanhood had been available to me. I wish that being a housewife or a mother wasn’t such a toxic idea to middle-class liberals of yesteryear.
Increasing numbers of my feminist friends are giving up their careers for love and children and baking. I wish I’d had kids ten years ago, when time was on my side, but the problem is not so much time as mentality. I made a conscious decision not to have serious relationships because I thought I had all the time in the world. Many of my friends did the same. It’s about understanding what is important in life, and from what I see and feel, loving relationships and children bring more happiness than work ever can.
Natasha Hidvegi, 37, has left her job as a surgeon to look after her son. “I found it impossible to be a good surgeon and a good mother. Though it was a horrendous decision, I don’t regret it.”
I thought that men would love independent, strong women, but (in general) they don’t appear to. Men are programmed to like their women soft and feminine. It’s not their fault – it’s in the genes. Holly Kendrick, 34, who holds a high-status job in the theatre, agrees: “Men tend to be freaked out if you work as hard as them.” This is why many of my girlfriends are still alone. The truth, though, is not that men haven’t accepted women’s modernity – the alpha woman who never questions her entitlement to the same jobs, fun and sexual gratification as them – but that women haven’t either. I feel a great pressure from other women of my generation, who have partners and kids, to join their club. In their eyes I am not the trailblazer but the failure. My friend Rita Arnold, 36, works in marketing. “It’s not men who judge me for being a careerist. It’s other women. The claws come out.”
This leaves me sick to the stomach. We are letting each other down but there is a worse betrayal than that. I am a failure in my own eyes. Somewhere inside lurks a woman I cannot control and she is in the kitchen with a baby on her hip and dough in her hand, staring me down. She is saying: “This is happiness, this is what it’s all about.” It’s an instinct that makes me a woman, an instinct that I can’t ignore even if I wanted to.
Felicity Wren, 36, is an actress who has yet to find Mr Right. “I feel the pressure, but only from myself, about how I do not have a conventional life. Most people don’t care.”
Had I this understanding of my psyche ten years ago I would have demoted my writing (and hedonism) and pursued a relationship with vigour. There were plenty of men and even a marriage offer, but I wouldn’t give up my dreams.
I talked to the girls who were the subject of my play Paradise Syndrome in 1999. Sas Taylor, 38, single and childless, runs her own PR company: “In my twenties I felt I was invincible,” she says. “Now I wish I had done it all differently. I seem to scare men off because I am so capable. I have business success but it doesn’t make you happy.” Nicki P, 35 and single, works in the music industry and adds: “It was all a game back then. Now I am panicking. No one told me that having fun is not as fun as I thought.”
As I write this I feel sad, as if the feminist principles that my mother brought me up on are being trashed. Am I betraying womanhood? No, I am revealing a shameful truth. Women are often the worst enemies of feminism because of our genetic make-up. We have only a finite time to be mothers and when that clock starts ticking we abandon our strength and jump into bed with whoever is left, forgetting talk of deadlines and PowerPoint presentations in favour of Mamas & Papas buggies and ovulation diaries. Not all women want children but I challenge any woman to say she doesn’t want loving relationships. I wish I’d had the advice that I am giving to my 21-year-old sister: if you find a great guy, don’t be afraid to settle down and have kids because there isn’t anything to miss out on that you can’t do later (apart from having kids).
In the future I hope that there can be a better understanding of women by women. The past 25 years have been confusing and I feel that I’ve been caught in the crossfire. As women we should accept each other rather than just appreciating “success”. I have always felt a huge pressure to be successful to show men that I am their equal. What a waste of time. Wife and mother should be given parity with the careerist role in the minds of feminists.
My mother had children early and has brilliantly juggled a career as a filmmaker and parent. She was part of the generation that overlapped, that had feminist values but had children early. She hasn’t had the job opportunities of my generation, she had to make sacrifices and take lesser jobs to be at parents’ evenings. Choice and careers are vital, of course, but they shouldn’t be pursued relentlessly. I love being a writer and still have my dream but now I am facing facts. The thing that has made me feel best in life was being in love with my ex-boyfriend and the thing that makes me feel the most centred is being in the country with kids and dogs, and yes, maybe in the kitchen.
(read original article here)
Please enter your email for special updates, news & upcoming offers 
I wanted to add one very important caveat to this post.
What is the difference between Zoe Lewis and Svetlana Kapanina the champion pilot from the previous post?
A successful flying career for Svetlana is certainly a big part of her identity.
But I’m willing to BET that as a True Russian Woman being a nurturing Wife and Mother is a much BIGGER Part of who she is.
Zoe Lewis on the other hand is starting to want the same deal..
But it looks like it’s way too late for her and she made the critical mistake of emphasizing the wrong identity in her life for well over the last 10 years.
Timing and Intent is everything it seems.
A few key statements from this article and my thoughts on them;
“It’s about understanding what is important in life, and from what I see and feel, loving relationships and children bring more happiness than work ever can.”
(This awakening is more central to the destructive nature of feminism than almost any other. The modern woman usually finds this plateau after coming to the realization that she isn’t going to be young and vibrant forever. They often feel as if it’s now ‘too late’ to have the love that’s been missing. Not true ladies. Now that you’ve discovered what the non-feminists have been saying is actually true, make an effort to find what’s missing. Just don’t try to seek it from your old feminist perspective or you will never have it.)
“I found it impossible to be a good surgeon and a good mother. Though it was a horrendous decision, I don’t regret it.”
(Being a successful surgeon is awesome and something to be very proud of but from what this woman says, she has definitely found true fulfillment in motherhood.)
“The truth, though, is not that men haven’t accepted women’s modernity . . . but that women haven’t either.”
(Women were given promises that had no level of proof to back them up. They walked blindly onto a battlefield untrained and ill-equipped, carrying with them only the vision of martyrdom. The vast majority of them were much more of a sacrifice than they were pioneers.)
“It’s not men who judge me for being a careerist. It’s other women.”
(And just to re-emphasize the point, men never were and probably never will be a part of that equation.)
“We are letting each other down but there is a worse betrayal than that. I am a failure in my own eyes.”
(It is not failure to acknowledge an error in judgment or action. The failure comes when acknowledgement is followed by denial and inactivity regarding necessary change.)
“It’s an instinct that makes me a woman, an instinct that I can’t ignore even if I wanted to.”
(Ignoring that instinct should be the first great clue. Don’t ignore it, don’t fight it, just follow it. That’s why we call it an “instinct”.)
“I feel the pressure, but only from myself, about how I do not have a conventional life. Most people don’t care.”
(That’s right ladies, most people “don’t care” about “your” life, they care about their own.)
“Now I wish I had done it all differently.”
(So now that you know, why not get off of the ride and calmly walk back in the direction of what we all know is right?)
“I seem to scare men off because I am so capable.”
(Believe me, your capability isn’t even on the map to most men and it is not being scared off that you are seeing. Your impression comes from misplaced ego; it is intelligent men saying to you that they have no desire to be emotionally involved with another man. Your tough guy, ‘look at me’, ‘I am woman’ b.s. does NOT impress anyone but you. Men are not scared of you; they are appalled and repulsed by you. When you start acting like a woman, men will most likely treat you like a woman.)
“I have business success but it doesn’t make you happy.”
(This is a classic Freudian statement of denial in that “she” has had business success but “we” won’t be happy with it. When she says that as “doesn’t make ‘me’ happy” she will be a step closer to a healing place.)
“Not all women want children but I challenge any woman to say she doesn’t want loving relationships.”
(Instead of “loving relationships”, how about ‘a’ loving relationship? By making that plural, she is still thinking like a feminist. If she actually desires that missing component she must get over the thoughts and choices which created the void in the first place. In business we say that ‘insanity is continuing to do the same thing while expecting different results’.)
“I have always felt a huge pressure to be successful to show men that I am their equal. What a waste of time. Wife and mother should be given parity with the careerist role in the minds of feminists.”
(Yes it is a waste of time to attempt proving something to someone who isn’t looking for the proof. No man that I have ever come across in business, sports, social or casual situations of any kind, has ever said to me that they were looking for a woman who could prove they were his equal. Never. It has never even been discussed in any circle I have ever been in, except possibly as material for jokes with regards to women who think that way. The ‘sisterhood’ apparently never told you that trying to impress men at some point in your life was not going to happen by acting like one of them. What’s more, while you are exactly right about “wife and mother” being given parity with careerist to the feminist community, you must know by now that this ideology is completely unacceptable to the true feminist. Their view of ‘indentured servitude’ as a career choice will never make muster.)
At the time of this writing, none of these women mentioned have reached their 40th birthday. They are still capable of being married and having children and what’s more their maturity combined with their revelation that they have been running the race in the wrong direction, gives them a unique opportunity to put right the wrongs done by their past idols. Becoming a mother at 35 or 40 after having conquered the corporate world or whatever industry they were involved in, gives these women the ability to micro manage a viable business (their marriage and home) be a leader (to their children) and have the emotional and physical gratification we all strive for. Caution though, dear ladies, do NOT try to “run” the marriage. Let your husband be the man and you will be greatly rewarded by being a woman. You will not be able to receive the benefits unless you are willing to first be a giver. Give more and you will get more. But like a fireplace, you can not stand in front of it demanding that it gives you heat before you are willing to give it some wood.
Relationships are NOT about competition, ladies. Please, get that through your head. Once you have discovered (young, old or anywhere in between) that you are heading for loneliness and a life void of emotional expression, get busy trying to find the prize and all of the while keep telling the as yet uninformed the error of their ways. Once enlightened, you have a greater obligation than ever before to share your knowledge. If you are able to spare even one other young woman the hardships you have seen, you are completely successful as a woman. You have found the light, carried and then passed the torch.
For that I can say, “You go, girl”.
This idea of men being intimidated is a convienient excuse for why they can not find a husband. I hear this time after time from my female friends. I gently try to help them uderstand that this is the wrong mindset but they have too much invested in this lie.
I’m with you, Freeburg. I’ve listened to that “intimidated by strong, confident women” b.s. throughout my entire adult life. Still, I have only met 3 or 4 men in all of those years who actually do seem intimidated by such a woman. Most (real) men are anxious to meet a strong and confident woman. (Along with an end to cancer, I pray daily to meet that kind of woman) Unfortunately, today’s modern, NA woman thinks that arrogant and bitchy equals strong and confident. There’s certainly nothing attractive or feminine about that mindset.
Richard, my Russian fiance is the strongest woman I have ever known. She is also feminine. She does not want to compete with me, we work together. She is eager to make a life with me and to allow me to be the leader. I have spent time with her father, mother and grandparents, they all accept the man as the leader of the family. If this is what you want you should go for it! I mean get your own girl. lol
The scrap heap consisting of those who have bowed to societal norms and pressures continues to grow–exponentially in recent months. No one is immune, males and females have bought the lies in equal measure. The enlightened have always known and shared the following:(1) One can’t “buy” love with money and accomplishments. Those impressed with such things aren’t worth knowing. They will flee at the slightest provocation. (2) Gratuitous sex leads to misery, and often sabotages the prospect of real love. (3)A house divided will fall. A marriage involves the melding of a couple into a dynamic, all- encompassing partnership. (4)No one can have it all. Life confronts us with opportunity costs, and they must be paid. (5) Good men and women have always fought for freedom and opportunity for all, and will continue to. Many of the wise, regardless of nationality, faith, or creed have advised the young to read Paul’s comments in 1 Corinthians, chapter 13. Surely, a couple embracing such thoughts would never falter. I’ll quote a portion of it: Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth…. If our role models don’t strive for such an ideal, maybe we need to seek inspiration elsewhere.
sam ogilvie said: “1) One can’t “buy” love with money and accomplishments. Those impressed with such things aren’t worth knowing.”
I hadn’t thought of it that way but you are quite right …
Sam,
How right you are about “Those impressed with such things aren’t worth knowing” and Amen on 1 Cor. 13 as a starting point. How amazing the truth and value in that ‘old book’.
Do you think that as a people, we North Americans have lost the ability to recognize love if we had it set right before us?
Around most crowds that I find myself in these days, there seems no real definitive vision of what love is. The things I hear now regarding love, especially from the 20 to 30 somethings, leave me in utter dismay. Without trying to point a finger in any one direction, it seems to me that our society has had so little chance to see truly loving relationships for so long now that the concept has merely vanished into memory.
How heart-wrenching, but I’m so glad this was written. I’m sure the tide is turning – look at us, on here, reading this article. Maybe our generation will begin reversing the damage.
I met two Iranian girls yesterday. How gorgeous, they were like swans or deer or roses, like the girls I watch in old films. I don’t know how else to explain it. I’m on a rampage to get back to that.
I think I follow you. I’ve met girls like that while abroad in Japan and Singapore. Not sure however that it’s all that easy to get back to, or at least that our society is conducive to it any more. Richard is right in that very few people have real love around them to look at. I will be forever grateful that I grew up with my grandfather, who loved my grandmother for 42 years of marriage and 3 years past her death, than my much-divorced mother.
Sam,
I really like the quote from 1 Cor. 13. That is my favorite bible passage, and I always refer to it when I need a reminder on love.
To me, love is about giving and forgiving. Both are important in order to be able to love properly. But I think most Americans no longer value true love as much as they should. It is not just feminism that has taken a toll on society, but materialism and individualism as well. Americans have become spoiled and are no longer grateful for what they have. These days, people can define what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ for themselves. You can wear your faith on your shirt, as if that somehow makes you a good person. You can customize just about every aspect of your life, and if you do not like something, you can just get rid of it for something “better.” We have to make everything ‘politically correct’ as to not offend anyone by our beliefs.
Americans live in a society where anything they want, they can get, with little effort involved most times. Is it any wonder that these same Americans would easily buy into an idea where you can have everything you desire, with little to no sacrifice involved? Most Americans have no real understanding of hard work or sacrifice. As a society, we are lazy, because we can be. We are used to receiving what we want without having to give up much. And when we do not get it…well, “taking by force” comes to mind. Is this the picture of a society based on faith and love?
In that same bible passage, Paul goes on to say,”So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” We need to start being examples of love to others, so that the next generation knows what is most important. We need to rediscover what has been buried so deep. It just goes to show that even the most “advanced” nation can lose its most valuable treasure.
Though I rarely watch television, much less in the daytime, I once found myself whiling away the minutes, during a period of mourning, by watching the Phil Donahue Show. As Phil walked about, woman after woman stood up and with the greatest condescension and disrespect imaginable, severely chastized their husbands. As the venom flew, I noticed that even Phil was slightly taken aback. Saddened and depressed by a family death, I felt a tide of hopelessness and despair seeping in. About that time, a large woman of African descent rose in the back of the auditorium. Phil immediately acknowledged her. With a lyrical but forceful voice she said, “I just don’t know about you women, but my husband was MADE TO ORDER, BABY.” With a broad smile breaking across his face, Phil asked if her husband was in the vicinity. The lady responded that he was, but since they couldn’t get tickets together, he was sitting alone in the seats below. Phil asked him to stand. This enormous guy bearing a cheshire cat grin, and tears in his eyes stood to enormous applause. Inspired, I got up to face my loss. Good people are out there to help us along, to show us the way, to give us a sense of hope, dignity, and purpose. I want to be part of that positivity. Richard, I think you are right, but, as you know, those jewels are out there just waiting to give you what you need.
Open Arms,
Your words are so on the mark. It is very refreshing that many of us here believe in the core values which our society was founded upon and bound to by our forefathers; men and women of integrity and purpose. Thank you for continuing Sam’s reference to 1 Corinthians with the part about ‘the greatest of these’ as that is the line I personally hang my hat on at the end of the day. The obligation on us to carry these beliefs beyond our personal desires is immense. We have so much and as a people we seem to care so little but the ones who are coming next need guidance and strong examples to follow. If we can teach nothing else to the future generations it should be how to love. For many of us that means we must relearn the basics and then live accordingly. Remember, our actions speak so loudly that others may not hear our words.
I also like what you say about Americans believing that they can have anything they want with little or no sacrifice. I have watched this shift in thinking from a time when it was assumed that everything had a price beyond dollars to where we are now and the idea that enough cash (no matter how you get it) will satisfy every need. And not just materially. How hurtful to us all has that mentality become. The statement that solidifies it all; “As a society, we are lazy, because we can be.” Bingo!
Sam,
The story about the couple that you saw on Phil Donohue is the sort of thing that inspires me as well. I guess our modern version of Phil Donohue is Dr. Phil, who even more strongly emphasizes what’s wrong with television and modern NA values. But having caught part of an episode of Dr. Phil while he was discussing ‘men who cheat’ the whole tone I saw was very anti male until one woman in the audience asked the women on stage why they married men like their husbands (even one who had met her guy while having affair with him) and the overwhelming response was that they thought it would be ‘different with them’. To me the value of what I saw was also in the woman from the audience.
It seems that we all understand what we should do in finding a life partner, mate, spouse or whatever we choose to call them, so how is it that so many of us make such drastic mistakes when the time comes?
This was difficut to read. The self-centeredness is breath taking. Mind numbing drivel, am I supposed to feel sorry for them? I love the part about men being scared off by success and drive. I don’t have time for any of this anymore. I am happily married to a beautiful Russian woman who is home now with our child as I speak. Men, get on a plane to the FSU and leave all these hideous monsters to themselves. BTW, with the economy imploding, now we’ll see just how “strong” they really are.
I’m certain the collapsing economy here is going to pull a lot of them down with it, just like the people who were pulled down with Titanic when it sank. They made their bed of razor wire, now they can bleed in it.
Taras
I know from watching my friends and people around me, SUCCESS AND HAPPINESS have NOTHING to do with each other. I’m just 17 and I have it figured out. My current motto is: “Think. Dream. Live. Love. Its that simple.” but its not easy because its hard to think for yourself, its hard to Dream your own dream, its hard to Learn to Live, Its hard to Learn to Love. Everyone makes mistakes and the extreme radical feminists look to me like they are running for all the hard parts of life because they are afraid of mistakes.
Zoe mentioned Madonna and following her lead. Everyone should know that following the crowd with out long and careful deliberation is an enormous mistake. THINK!
Dreaming is the creation of a vision that will better your life (and the lives of those around you hopefully), based on what you have experienced and thought about carefully. And the attempt to make it reality. DREAM!
Wisdom is gained through action and experiences, not what you have done. Its how you got there, and the friends and memories you made while you wandered around with out thinking about your goal. LIVE!
Zoe Lewis mentioned that she is not happy…of course she is not. A happy person finds a balance between all things in moderation. How can you be happy if you are so narrow minded and won’t open up to those around you? you cant. LOVE!
——
I would just like to draw a line I have recently drawn for myself.
Not all feminists are bad. Those people who want equal pay for equal work make a logical argument. If they want to have a career and sex abounding, fine by me. Who am I to tell them not too.
But the Femi-Nazi Man-hater camera whore who wants me (and all other men) castrated is a different story. That woman is a person who refuses to even try to understand others and is purposefully clueless as to the revolted reactions of all people around them.
Its like the femi-nazi is running away from all the hard parts in life, she won’t think for herself, she won’t dream her own dream, she won’t try new things to live, and she won’t try to love for real and sleeps around like a cheap whore.
I’m not anti feminist. I am anti-femi-nazi man hater and their male equivalent.
American women = edgy, flaky, tedious, boring, uninspiring.
Once you’ve traveled to Russia and have experienced their women, there is no turning back.
American women simply cannot compete with Russian women. End of story.
Note to all of you young people who view the prospect of marriage and family with deep desire and the certainty of lifetime in the arms of your one true love.
Never let go of that dream! Demand it, own it, fight for it, and don’t let the modern perception of marriage as a temporary situation to somehow reflect who you will be as a spouse. Mature in the basic, fundamentals of a loving partnership, together, before committing your lives to each other. It CAN be done, but you must do it. You must turn the tide and it starts right here. The sharing of common beliefs is step one.
As we are seeing here, and as many of us have known for a very long time, there are people worthy of your affection. Those people are worthy because they have values and principles which you base your life on and you do not have to settle for less. If that means leaving everyone and everything that you have ever known to set out on a world wide quest, then so be it.
At the end of the day, there has been no celebration, no high fives from my buddies and no feeling of victory or even much accomplishment.
Seven years of legal separation has finally culminated in a divorce and the satisfaction of it all being over, though welcome, is still less than the sense of loss and waste.
I don’t feel loss in regards to the person, the relationship or certainly any emotional or physical bond of any sort. That was all gone long ago. My feeling of loss exists on a much higher plane. It is another promise of family and security that has been dashed on the rocks below some great, rocky cliff. It is another child who must now balance two lives at an age when the most important thoughts in her head should be whether or not butterflies are really made of butter. It is the continued loss of innocence and wonder which our inner child has held onto in a deep, white knuckle, death grip for as long as we can recall. But the loss is also of an institution, a mountain range on the landscape of life.
Marriage is becoming outdated and unnecessary in the eyes of the world, or is at best being viewed as a business decision. How tragic. Just as every passing day brings the reality of some wild species being lost to time immemorial, so too is the creature we call marriage. On the very brink of extinction by most accounts, we savor the hay day of marriage with same romantic view as herds of wild buffalo thundering across the sprawling plains of the Dakotas a hundred years ago.
Men . . . young men . . . BE men. Do not settle for what may seem convenient at first glance. Believe me there is no convenience in risking everything you have ever worked hard to achieve or acquire on the promise of an ‘easy’ relationship. Every relationship is a task of effort and reward, but none more so than the one we call marriage. While all of the ‘things’ will come and go, the cost to your manhood is immeasurable. As you compromise core values in an attempt to be more in line with the way things are today, you sacrifice in pounds of flesh the very essence of who you were designed to be. There is NO value in being ‘tenderized’ or ‘pasteurized’ by the modern NA woman. Live up to who YOU are and if the women here are not able to respect that, you have been strengthened by the knowledge you have gained.
My recent divorce, the second, is by most accounts a pretty good deal. I have kept my home, I have kept my resources, and most importantly, I have kept custody of my daughter. And though I will be making a nominal initial compensation to my ex to cover some of her legal costs, I will be receiving child support from her for the next ten years. So all in all, it could have been much worse, and naturally finishing this challenge only makes way for the next one life offers up. I am somewhat relieved as this phase comes to an end, but as the old story goes, there is no joy when the human cost is so high.
Love your site – found it at random at bedtime, and have been reading it all night ! Awesome reading.
I don’t know if you have seen what has been happening in the West lately, but everything seems to be falling apart at the home front.
Financial Armageddon !
When I scratch the surface and look at what might be behind this – I see millions of hard working enslaved men, working longer and longer hours for less real pay, and being driven deeper and deeper into debt – all in a futile bid to try and make their western women happy and comfortable.
The consequences of disappointing a woman are dire – divorce and getting cleaned out. There is a shotgun being held to the head of every man stuck in a relationship with a western woman.
Even here in Australia – where the average woman’s dress size has now increased to 16 !! Walk down any street during the day, and all you will see is masses of housewives, with their SUVs parked nearby, gorging themselves on expensive food, and whining about how hard their lives are.
Their men, of course, are at work to pay the ever increasing bills.
Housing used to be for the purpose of providing shelter for families – but now houses are merely an ‘investment vehicle’ to raise equity so that the husband can take out a loan to pay for the wife’s new car, or for her to take a shopping holiday with her girlfriends to some distant destination.
The sheer gluttony and selfish greed of these women is reinforced and encouraged on every advert on every TV channel, and their ‘rights’ to take more than their fair share is enshrined in law.
It is predominantly female ‘high powered’ real estate agents and the wives that they market to (both of whom have bare minimum understanding of mathematics) who have helped fuel the insane speculative bubble in real estate values. So thanks to their ‘financial investment expertise’, a huge proportion of married men are stuck in houses that are worth less than they owe on them. The wife in these cases can walk out of the mess with the children, a lump sum of cash, all the belongings – and leave the man on his own to pay the debts.
So any prospect of buying a house and raising a loving family with one of these women is purely comical, the way things are now.
The only truly happy men that I know here (and I know lots of them), are single by choice, and they only spend time with their mates. Women here are not even worth having a drink with. We do not need gigantic houses and new cars – we are perfectly happy with comradeship, honest work, and healthy activities. Building a healthy family or business in this environment is not an option.
I think when the western economy finally catches up with reality, there will be a lot of free, healthy and happy men, and an awful lot of overweight, aging women who live in lonely misery.
It is these miserable, overweight, selfish feminist harpys who basically run the county now, and what a great job they are doing with it too ! First our women went to the dogs, and now our nations are going the same way.
I think it is time for all good men to stand up, join their brothers, and leave these women to their own pathetic devices.
See you in Russia soon, comrade !
Even here in Australia – where the average woman’s dress size has now increased to 16 !! Walk down any street during the day, and all you will see is masses of housewives, with their SUVs parked nearby, gorging themselves on expensive food, and whining about how hard their lives are.
I see this all the time here, and I’m supremely happy I am divorced now with no children.
think when the western economy finally catches up with reality, there will be a lot of free, healthy and happy men, and an awful lot of overweight, aging women who live in lonely misery.
The day of reckoning is fast approaching, and it will be the ugliest day of all time in the history of western civilization. For those men stuck behind the bars with these Orcs, it’ll be as fun for the population as the day the Ottoman Turks seized Constantinople or the day the Russians seized Berlin. It’ll herald generations of hardship and suffering that most of these spoiled western women will not survive mentally or physically. It’s going to be a very painful reality check, but after much acrimony, suspicion, anger and swallowed pride men and women here will have to either go back to being life partners and helping each other through the difficult times ahead. Societies and civilizations collapse but the people can and do survive if they band together against that which threatens their lives and futures. Or they won’t and western civilization will be replaced. It’s that simple. We have a choice as a people, stand together and maybe make it, or don’t and hang separately one at a time.
Taras
“A playwright who embraced the feminism espoused by her mother…”
The feminist flu is more often than not passed down from the mother, it seems. Mothers who raise their daughters this way aren’t doing them a favor.
“Natasha Hidvegi, 37, has left her job as a surgeon to look after her son. ‘I found it impossible to be a good surgeon and a good mother. Though it was a horrendous decision, I don’t regret it.’”
Meanwhile, how many deserving men were pushed out of careers as surgeons because of women like Natasha? Many worthy male applicants are rejected from medical schools because the schools have limited space and have to fill their quotas of females.
“Lesley discovers, along with Madonna, that trying to ‘have it all’ is a huge gamble.”
What “trying to have it all” actually means is “trying to have your cake and eat it too,” which is what feminism has always been about. And it’s not a “huge gamble”; it’s impossible. You *can’t* have your cake and eat it too.
“I thought that men would love independent, strong women, but (in general) they don’t appear to.”
Why would they? Are women (in general) attracted to soft, feminine men?
“Women are often the worst enemies of feminism because of our genetic make-up.”
Sounds like a roundabout admission that feminism was nothing but a futile revolt by sick, spoiled, defective women against biology and the natural order.
“I wish I’d had the advice that I am giving to my 21-year-old sister: if you find a great guy, don’t be afraid to settle down and have kids because there isn’t anything to miss out on that you can’t do later (apart from having kids).”
Well, I’m glad she isn’t trying to perpetuate the cycle her mother started.
“She was part of the generation that overlapped, that had feminist values but had children early.”
The only reason women wanted careers is because they were told they couldn’t have them. Now that they have them, they want to be mothers and housewives again. And all this at a tremendous cost to men and to society.
10 years ago, if you had told me I’d now be saying this, I wouldn’t have believed you, but I’m saying it: the men who opposed women entering the workforce were RIGHT. The men who opposed women entering institutions of higher learning were RIGHT. The men who opposed women being given the vote were RIGHT.
Women play out their whims and who pays the price? Society. Children. Men
Enough is enough already.
Ladies — shut your yappers and get back in the kitchen, where you belong.
“One can’t ‘buy’ love with money and accomplishments.”
Sure one can. Why do you think women gravitate towards wealthy professionals when it comes to finding husbands? Why do women line up to date rock stars, movie actors, professional athletes, etc.?
“This was difficut to read. The self-centeredness is breath taking.”
Thank you. That’s exactly what I was getting from the article as well but couldn’t find the words to express it. That’s what so many women strike me as — completely self-centered. All that matters is them. Their happiness. Their fulfillment. Their careers. Nothing else exists outside of themselves.
Even though this broad *knows* that she was wrong, that she chose the wrong path in life, she still can’t bring herself to fully admit it. She still believes that she can have her cake and eat it too; or perhaps more importantly, that society should continue to let her try to have her cake and eat it too. How utterly pathetic.
“American women = edgy, flaky, tedious, boring, uninspiring.”
As bad as some American women are, they’re still helluva better than most Western European women.
Hello Igor,
I was referring to real love. I will always believe that neither men nor women can “buy” real, true love.
There are real women of substance in every country, though they may be rare in the more superficial, materialistic enclaves. GL has introduced us to a number of them. I personally know a few, and I would describe a couple of women who frequent this site as extraordinary. I hope you can find one of the jewels. Please don’t get discouraged, best of luck.
<>
What’s funny is that women are those who call eachother sluts and whores when one of them is promiscuous too.
I’m sorry to say it to all the passionate writers here, but feminism and wealth are synonymous. As Glubb Pasha head of the Arab Legion observed when feminism comes a culture ends. And feminism is the logical outcome of a wealthy society. It comes at a cultures’ apex, when it is wealthy enough to afford it, and people can afford to leave the family bonds to ‘have their own experience’, and focus on ‘feelings’. It is inevitable, and with feminism’s arrival the culture goes into decline.
At the peak of the Roman empire much criticism was leveled at the women who got ‘married to get divorced to get married etc’. Sounds familiar?
To quarrel against this is to quarrel against the earth revolving around the sun.
Prince, I’ve written about this before.. how feminism cannot survive unless it leeches off of a socialist oriented society that supports it without merit.
I agree that Feminism cannot survive without a rich society. But I don’t believe that a rich society automatically gives rise to Feminism.
I say this because I believe the biggest determining factor in the rise of feminism in my mind are corrupt governments that wish to divide and conquer a people by weakening and destroying families by supporting feminism.
There’s alot of propaganda that has to be played out for many years to successfully get women to suppress their natural desires to love, have children, nourish and give.
Take away the propaganda and put women in a rich or poor environment and I’d be willing to bet you that they would be more then happy as a majority to embrace their roles as mother and wives. Of course there has to be Men willing to be good husbands and fathers too. And in this regard from what I see in the West there is no shortage of this.
But if women decide to wage war against men as feminism dictates that they do then no matter what intentions the man may have he cannot fulfill this role that he desires.
Prince ljohn,
I’m not sure of your source regarding marriage and divorce in Roman times but there was no epidemic of ‘upwardly mobile’ career oriented women in that period of history and there were also very few divorces and even fewer ‘divorce for profit’ women.
Many women were not allowed to divorce their husbands and divorces were only granted for infidelity. There were no such ‘get out of marriage free’ cards like mental cruelty, emotional separation or irreconcilable differences. Marriage was considered for life even though life was considerably shorter then. But even at that, a woman who wished to remarry was generally ‘offered’ first to a brother of her late husband or if no brother was available then to other men of the family because family was the most important factor in marriage. Marriage and family in those days was intended to go far past the couple themselves. It was designed to build ongoing families. Generations to follow were a primary consideration.
What’s more, comparing the two periods in time is somewhat irrelevant in the long run because, let’s face it, we hold so few ideals today which were fundamental cornerstones to the way of life then.
With regards to feminism and wealth being synonymous, I have to disagree. Wealth in any hands will not lead to the rise of concepts like feminism. Only when the wealth of a nation is controlled by corrupt people will radical ideals flourish. And to think it is some natural course of events when the two conditions arise is ludicrous. It is only through the concerted effort of those corrupt few, applying their selfish and paranoid concept of security and self preservation that they will offer and promote such deceptive and destructive practices upon their society. Governments who are afraid of losing control will indoctrinate the masses with promises of individual greatness while subverting the very foundation of those promises. Wealth and feminism only go hand in hand in so much as wealthy government officials can have greater control of the majority by weakening them with anti family ideas like feminism. Strong families tend to produce strong ideals and that is in and of itself a threat to the corrupt.
While it is easier to ball it all up and blame the rich for our lot in life, try being a little wealthier and see where your loyalties fall. You might be surprised to find that ‘conservative’ is no longer an ugly word once you have something to conserve.
rw_man, richard, thank you for your comments. This is an interesting dialogue, I will add a little more. I agree that this version of Feminism has strong American characteristics and takes perhaps the worst of American culture. But consider these things
Wealth, especially that created by the industrial revolution, requires great effort to create and maintain. It requires great time discipline, many years spent learning and applying skills. It asks as much as it gives. It requires separation from any natural cycle of life, from being outdoors etc.
At the same time it creates leisure time. There is more time for intellectual life. So work becomes blander and more routine and leisure time grows. The problem of modern life then is boredom.
When the family was on the farm you worked dawn till dusk. Children were welcomed, they cost much less to raise and became productive much sooner and were a necessity. You lived close to, if not with your extended family and never moved.
In these modern times children cost a fortune to raise, expenses for school college etc and are no longer necessary.
When Betty Frieden wrote her book on the female mystique she was asking a legitimate question, the housewife who sat at home all day with not much to do in the suburbs where there were no challenges left was bored out of her skull. Is this all to life? It was inevitable that someone would ask this question, Never mind whatever else Frieden was, if it was not her it would have been someone else. So women wanted both something to do and share of the wealth.
And with wealth comes mobility, the ability to say no, and also narcissism. So it was inevitable that with wealth women would say no, their threshold of tolerance would become much less. It doesnt matter that they would later regret saying no, they said no because they could. That’s part of the American story is it not? The freedom to ‘go west’, to walk away and start new?
Only the wealth and the leisure time could allow this. The rest that came later was just the vultures picking on the carcass. It is hard to write, maybe harsh to read, yes. But everything has a beginning, middle and an end. It is possible that the pendulum will swing back, but that looks doubtful. The new generations are now even more self absorbed and selfish. The carcass is being picked dry.
There may never be another golden age for relations between men and women in the Anglo West. Perhaps there never really was any. In terms of cycles, perhaps the best time is towards the ‘end of the middle’ whenever that is, which is when the wealth has been created and the old values still persist so there is family and friends to enjoy the wealth with.
The torch has passed. The party is over for men and women. The future lies east, in the cultures that actually have children. For example go to any Mexican neighborhood and you will see a gaggle of children. Their genes will be passed on. They have not reached this level of detatchment and intellectual sophistication. They are a much simpler folk culture so perhaps they never will and are saved because of that.
But we try out best anyway…what else can we do?
All the best
Prince those are all good points.
But my point has always been that the modern draw of life in the city.. of affluence.. or leisure for women.. is a very short lived experience in terms of deeper satisfaction if it comes at the expense of a loving committed marriage and family.
Just read the above Madonna Syndrome post again to understand..
How many times can any girl just hang out with the other girls drinking cocktails or latte’s at the posh and popular street cafe before it get’s old and they realize.. hmm something is REALLY missing here.
How many times can they go clubbing to go “make the scene” before they realize that this is a pretty shallow and dysfunctionaly image driven way to live.
How many pieces of jewelery or stocks in their portfolio do they need to collect before they think to themselves.. Something’s wrong here.
The deepest point that I want to strike home here is this.
Real happiness doesn’t come from being just another mindless consumer as American society unfortunately brainwashes the masses to believe.
No.
Real happiness comes from being in the service of others and knowing that you are making a difference in the world.
And guess what?
The greatest and most fundamental way to do this is through nurturing a stable loving family into the world.
Betty Frieden completely missed the boat as far as I’m concerned because she was asking questions based on what “society was telling her to be”.. no wonder she talked about bored out of their minds women.
The Madison Avenue propaganda masters are not where people should be looking for inspiration and direction on their lives.
Supporting Families is where it is and always should be.
Prince ljohn,
Wonderfully said! This is indeed an interesting dialog and what you’ve added here drives home several great points.
Throughout all of the misdirection and misunderstanding of people and their natural roles in the grander scheme of things, we are ultimately seeking happiness and fulfillment. Yet we have apparently either completely missed the point or have swung so far past center as to no longer even be able to identify that point.
The “what are we really here for” conundrum may be a bit passé, but we no longer seem to know or maybe even care what our purpose is.
At the end of the day, true happiness comes from our identity as humans and that identity is generally best expressed via our family and closest friends. No man or woman is an island. We all need people to love and be motivated by or we have no self expression. The artist who says he only paints for himself is a liar or a fool. We all seek the approval and acceptance of others. It is in our make up. It’s a part of who we all are.
The unfortunate reality, as many here have suggested, is that we now look at relationships as insignificant pieces to a mundane puzzle called life and what was once love is now little more than a mild case of lust.
You’re right about the question being asked eventually. The problem with Frieden and her peers was that they never had a working answer.
It is easy to complain, criticize and condemn. But it is much harder to offer any substantive solutions.
You may also be right about there not being any revival of the basic ideals of our forefathers. The time may have come to look beyond the old ways and find something new and different. But if we fail to look at the core values and needs we all share as a base line for whatever direction we embark on from here, we will be doomed to relive the disaster we now have for generations to come.
I don’t believe we are beyond hope in terms of marriage and family, or else I wouldn’t give the topic so much of my time. However I am convinced that it will only change after the depressing results of our current situation are realized. And that realization must come in no small part from those of you too young to know how it used to be.
Life WAS better then. I have seen it both ways. Family IS more important to your personal sense of self than any amount of money will ever be. Play with your career but NEVER take it as seriously as family. If we have learned nothing else in the past decade it is that NO corporation will show you a portion of loyalty equal to what they ask from you. And NO amount of dedication to your career will match the fulfillment you get from a loving spouse and children.
Guys, I really appreciate all the thoughtful dialogue. I thoroughly enjoy coming to this site and reading at every opportunity.
As contradictory and absurd as it seems, I am more enthusiastic about the future of America/Western culture than I have been in quite some time. Despite the fact that our “average” student ranks poorly internationally in math, science and reading, and is purportedly more self-centered and narcissistic than ever, I am strongly encouraged by what I see in college students, particularly females. Though I find that my intentions are ocassionally misinterpreted, I constantly engage any young people I encounter in conversation, and over the past three years or so, I have been pleasantly surprised at what I hear and learn from them. Surprising numbers of our best and brightest are working in poor countries like Haiti with grass roots orginizations, and many are returning to small towns to teach, coach, practice medicine, etc. and raise families. Amazingly, many are in constant contact with their parents, and actually seem to enjoy doing things with them, and for them. I realize statistics don’t lie, and that our societal problems are significant, but we can address them, and move forward. Our diversity is a double-edged sword, but I think we are cutting with the good side more than ever. I remain hopeful.
I don’t disagree, of course raising a family is the most likely source of satisfaction for most of us.
But so also not driving at a 100 miles an hour is good for a teenager as is eating healthy food, and doing the homework. But try telling a teenager that.
People in America live in an extended adolescence.
The route out of adolescence into adulthood for men is through the initiatory rites of the tribe. The boy dies and a man is born, the narcissistic child ego is killed and a member of the tribe emerges, someone who is capable of engaging with the world as it is and not how they would like it to be.
The route out of adolescence for women is biological, with puberty the clock starts ticking and they are ready to receive and conceive, to awaken to being a mother. Henceforth the centrality of life will be home hearth and children.
This step is a painful step as it requires the surrender of the ego to a larger idea of life. But it is necessary for us to feel complete and whole (note, whole, not entertained) This is who we are. Women cant make the transition that men do, their psyche wont allow it, which is where the modern version of feminism goes astray. Doesn’t mean that women don’t need or can’t enjoy some kind of work, hobby, art or craft. They just can’t do so the way men do.
But there is something else. Wealth and the mobility and endless choices for entertainment it brings allows people, men and women, to skip this step altogether. They can remain in an adolescent psychic state almost indefinitely. Since the step is painful the opportunity to skip it is readily taken, and americans dont like ‘surrendering’.
The adolescent lives in a world of fantasy firmly convinced that something glorious is going to happen, it has to happen. The adolescent fully expects the world to be the way they want it to be and refuses to engage with it otherwise. The adolescent also believes fulfillment is the same as entertainment and so seeks it that way with poor results. So you have women in their thirties and forties still holding onto the fantasy of the ‘One’, the man who will come and ‘take them away’ while refusing all real life relationships and railing on angrily about men. With the extended adolescence the culture goes into decline.
So this is the arc of human endeavor with the usual twists and quirks.
poverty;
spiritual strength, prayer, discipline, sacrifice, hard work, innovation;
wealth, enjoyment, pleasure;
boredom, atheism, feminism, existentialism, post modernism, nihilism, hedonism;
apathy, extended adolescence, narcissism;
meditation, service;
reduced wealth and the cycle repeats.
This is the karmic cycle of life, it is who we are.
The people in the more folk cultures dont go through such a strong cycle. Mostly because they aren’t really trying that much. They ask for less, live on less and are content with less. Then life is filled with rituals, ceremonies and festivals marking the different phases of life usually involving friends, family and different kinds of food. People take contentment in spending their evenings with their childhood friends watching the seasons come and go.
Interesting entry there, Prince IJohn. It sounds plausible, but I don’t have the background to comment intelligently.
I have noticed when I am suffering from insomnia and I browse social websites like Match.com that the never married women in their 30s and 40s do seem to have a “prince complex”. In fact, their requirements, terms and conditions seem absurd. Absurd enough to make one wonder if they aren’t joking in fact. On the other hand, it’s a free country, so who am I to question someone’s desires? For the sake of fun and analysis, let me draw up a dream list from the male perspective.
Single, never married male, age 48, seeks woman for dating and potential marriage.
Requirements:
age: Not a day older or younger than 23. Don’t dare respond if you don’t meet those age requirements. I am sick of girls and old women writing me. Get it, don’t bother if you aren’t 23, otherwise you will get an earful.
Height and weight: 5’7″ and exactly 101 pounds, 34-22-25. Do not write if you can’t verify these stats with a picture and a notarized physical from an internal medicine specialist.
Hair and eyes: Platinum blond or jet black hair. Eyes must be green, blue or black; absolutely no exceptions.
Education: 3.8 gpa or above from an Ivy League instit. or a college or university ranked in the top 20 nationally by US NEWS and WORLD REPORT. Prefer someone with an advanced degree.
Income and net worth: A minimum of six figures in annual income with assets in the 5-10 million range.
Misc. I like my time alone, so once married, you are going to have to vacate the house at least 2-3 hours every 24 hours. I enjoy my time with the boys, so don’t expect me home at least 3 nights per week. I expect you to give at least 70% of the time in our relationship at a minimum. It’s best that you speak only when spoken to.
Thanks for reading my profile
Does this sound familiar? If not take some time and check out Match.com Prince IJohn, you may have a point there!
Some of them don’t just want equal rights, they want the best of both worlds.
Sam,
Love your dating site ‘ad’. That’s pretty close to what we can read from those women.
I have read through many of those ‘social contacting’ sites and have written dozens of pages of thoughts on what exactly these women must be thinking. Your men’s version of the ads posted on any one of those sites is a hoot. It’s too bad for all of us that the humor of what you say can be lost in the reality of the whole thing.
An actual ad that I placed with one of the biggest singles sites available was a little more ‘open’ in terms of requirements and expectations. After getting very little response to a legitimate ad, I placed one that was pretty much b.s. to see if the response would be any better. In my new ad I said I was;
“30, never married, financially secure, semi-retired entrepreneur, who loves travel and open intimacy. I love kids, small animals and have great respect for the elderly. My only requirements are; average to above average looks, height/weight proportionate, non smoker. Prefer someone my age or younger and my height or a little shorter. Hair and eye color don’t matter, tattoos or piercings should be limited and within reason. My only deal breaker is COMPLETE HONESTY from day one. If you’d lie in your ad I would never be able to trust you in a relationship”.
The picture I posted was a pretty good looking ‘30 something’ from a magazine ad.
By the time I had received a little over 2 thousand hits on that ad I was still without even one contact from anyone. A bit later I started getting ‘winks’ and notes from women in their 60s, teenage girls from Europe and Africa (most of whom were Americans who lived there with their parents until they were killed in a car accident and now just needed to find enough money to get home to the states) and about a dozen hard core women’s libbers with lists of demands that stunned my sensibility.
It’s amazing how many women in their mid 30s with 2 divorces and 3 kids from 3 fathers are “honest, sincere, easy going and love walks on the beach at sunset”.
All in all I realized that places like Match, Date, SinglesNet and many other dot-coms are 90% lies, attempts at fraud or just good old fashion crap.
Thanks, Richard. What a wild experience you had at the dating site. It seems that Africa is full of American girls who have lost both parents in tragic accidents, and who are in dire need of funds to purchase plane tickets home. You are right, if we weren’t discussing reality, the whole thing would be rather humorous. As usual, your entry is a great read, and reflective of one who has done some thinking and living.
Yes of course any perusal of online dating sites will show you this extended adolescence. Or just look around you and pay attention and you will see it.
There’s not much more to be said on this topic so I will leave with a link. The below is a take on the movie Groundhog Day from a spiritual perspective, a look at this transition from adolescence to adulthood.
http://www.transparencynow.com/groundhog.htm
It is a beautiful movie with a great message. In a sense Bill Murray’s character Phil is lucky, he stays the same age while he is growing and so has infinite chances. In real life we age of course and dont get that many chances.
But there is a major assumption in the story which is no longer true that queers the pitch. The story assumes that Phil has a prize at the end that is worth making the effort for. This prize is the woman and the assumption is that this prize readily exists. A prize that is not necessarily a beauty queen but a regular woman who has made her transition or is ready to make it, who is content to be a woman, wants to build a home, be a mother to her children etc. All of Phil’s work is to win the prize as it is for all people who are not aspiring to be saints.
But this prize no longer exists and no matter how much work Phil does he will very likely find only an adult child on the other side of the table who will despise him anyway, or the seat will just be empty. And that, really, is the anthropological and cultural end.
But things can and do change, so keep trying!
All the best
Hello Prince ljohn, marriage in the Roman times and before was different then todays marriage. Divorce of wim was unheard of. Of course immorality went on and did cause the fall of Rome. Being a woman was different then too. An unmarried woman back then(since men only married one woman) would have to become a prostitute if she had no family to take care of her. Listening to men I can understand why they are wary of marriage. Of course if you were a woman in Victorian times you could be wary of marriage since the men back then could take the children and never let her seen them. It just went the other direction now.
Hello westerngirl,
Thanks for your input. There needs to be more women participating in these kinds of discussions. Yes of course the actual style of marriage was different in different times and if you see I have looked at things from a different angle.
But your entry underscores the point this site and others like it have been making. The social contract between men and women is the basis of a society’s health and well being. For this contract to be viable it has to account for our basic natures.
When the contract breaks the society falls apart. Feminists didnt want to weaken this contract or add a few provisions here and there, they wanted to break it altogether.
Even the language of this dialogue shows how deep is this devestation. The contract is a contract of opposites who complement each other. This language that looks at who marriage ‘benefits’ is the language of competition. A relationship cannot be a competition, if it is made one it will not survive.
The feminists succeeded, there is no trust anymore and when the women of a tribe turn on their men the culture ends.
Thanks for your input Prince ljohn and this time I will steer more on the topic. I would have to agree that radical antimale views are not helping the Western world in general.
Of course I also believe other factors play into the mess we are going through. Our society believes in focusing and caring about yourself and putting yourself before anyone else. There is nothing wrong with improving yourself or looking after your best interest but in our society it realy is about being selfish. In a marriage you cannot be selfish you have to care and take care of the needs of your spouse and children. Therefore, it is not a suprise if people in our society think the marriage is not about me so I am getting out. I will give you an example that I have people comment to me that you should not stay married if you do not feel happy or love the person anymore.
The sexual revolution did not help things either. Our society believes that you should do whatever you want and that anything goes. Let us jump to logic these actions do not make men or women respect each other. A man is not going to respect such a woman for questionable character and a woman would not trust such a man. There of course is other details that can be added to this.
“The New Feminism”?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBZk-sJ-b-M
Thoughts? Opinions?
Open Arms,
I’ve watched this clip a couple of times, and my main thought is that she talks a lot but says very little. I’m not meaning that as a put down or anything, but she has offered nothing that isn’t (or at least shouldn’t be) already known.
To begin with she continues to reference John Paul II but not the Bible. I have a problem with that simply because all Christians are called to put the word of God above the word of man; any man. The Pope is a man. I understand the Catholic perspective in that regard but still she is excited about the thoughts of a man over Bible teaching.
Later she mentions that there “is no recipe” for women today. Actually, again from the Christian point of view, nothing could be further from the truth. While there are several Biblical references regarding how a woman should ‘be’ as a wife, a mother, a friend and simply as a woman, there is also a complete chapter in the book of Proverbs which defines being a good wife. (But guys, don’t jump for joy too fast. It also reminds us to “love our wives as Christ loved the church”.) There is no shortage of guidelines for Christian women to follow with regards to their personal responsibilities.
But, here’s the rub; this woman is celebrating being a “Christian feminist” and I contend that you must be one or the other. When women (or men) put their Christian beliefs first, there is simply no place for redefining gender roles. It has been done. Deal with it.
This video portrays a real problem within the Christian community which is that modern women “want” to be loyal to their faith but “need” to carry that feminist banner everywhere they go. That sort of divided attention defies the Bible and common sense.
The most devout Christian couples that I know never waste their time trying to figure out which one is ‘wearing the pants’. They know their value and importance to the marriage and the family. They know that each has their own unique strengths and benefits and they always seem to accept their roles in the family dynamic. There is a very good reason why these friends are married for decades rather than days.
Being able to love and respect your spouse as the person they were designed to be is the most logical, yet most overlooked, first step in the process of being married. It is a foundational cornerstone. Loving someone places their needs above your own and at that point all of this feminist garbage blows off into the sunset like so many particles of dust on a spring day.
Christian Feminist, The New Feminism, or whatever other buzz words we have around the next turn, are just other ways of saying the very same thing that we have been hearing since the late 50s or 60s. Proper Christian alignment removes any need or desire for feminism and other personally destructive pass times.
Richard,
Thanks for the comments. Very insightful, as always.
I am leaning more towards your perspective on this issue. I agree completely with the idea that being a “Christian Feminist” is a contradiction. True Christianity is about giving your life for God and to helping others do the same, while feminism is about wanting to have for yourself or some false perception that life is fair and all should be equal. True love gives away, while feminism takes what it wants.
I understand that the Bible is the first place to look for how a person should live their life. However, I cannot discount the immense gift Pope John Paul II has given through the Theology of the Body. Because his teachings are so fresh and new to most people, and also contrary to current western culture, it will take time to be fully understood for what it is. This concept is exactly the kind of radical “wake up call” the west needs to get back to what is most important.
I also agree that there is great unrest in the Christian (and Catholic) community these days. Recent events have called into question the Church’s stance on several critical issues. In fact, I happened to find that video on a Catholic website FOR MEN, which tries to promote men being good fathers! More and more men are being emasculated, and even good Catholic men are feeling the sting of feminism now.
If women want to know how to be good, Christian wives and mothers, look to the Bible, not to feminism. True love does not have ulterior motives or demands. The true beauty of a woman comes from her heart; a heart that desires to support the people she cares about, without thinking about what she will get in return. Russian women find fulfillment in this role, as all women can. But you have to be willing to complete, rather than compete.
Wonderfully said. Thank you for your insight and perspective. I agree that ‘Theology of the Body’ offers a lot of great concepts and applications.
Christianity does teach us to take our eyes off of ourselves and to look at how we can benefit everyone we encounter. That practice should most certainly begin with our mate and our family.
As a whole, I think that NA people have made a mess of real justice for the masses on every level in favor of pandering to a select few. It is sad and quite disheartening to watch the demise of one’s own society. While it would seem that each person is ‘fighting their own fights’ they are ignoring the vital needs of us all.
Well to put it bluntly if you are a Christian you take the Bible’s instrutions about what you are suppose to do and not man made ideas. The Bible talks about women being obediant to thier husbands and being good wife. It also gives instructions for example on being a father too. Of course alot of people in the world don’t believe in following the Bible. Some women refuse to do anything for a man while many have thier own guide lines to obey for reasons. There is also the Bible commandment for husbands to love thier wife as Christ love the church. Many men all over the world I am willing to bet would refuse that.
You’ve reiterated an important part of the problem regarding a man’s obligation. I think you are right that most men are unwilling to ‘love their wives as Christ loved the church’. Just as feminism has reprogrammed NA women to constantly be on guard for what ‘their man’ will do next, men have become desensitized to the truly feminine woman because she ‘must be up to something’ or she wouldn’t be acting so nice. We have become so relationally paranoid that we have effectively lost our capacity for openness and appreciation of our mate’s affection.
Here’s a study about feminism in Russia which I think you gentlemen may find interesting =]
http://condor.depaul.edu/~rrotenbe/aeer/v17n1/Roudakova.pdf
Look pretty deep.. I’ll need to take some brain pills before I dive into this one..;)
Thanks for the link..
I’ve spent some time going through the link that Kisha provided, and yes it is pretty deep. To start with I don’t want to give the impression that I think Kisha has tried to sell any point of view but rather that she has given us a published paper which apparently tries to make some sense of the events which led us to where we are now.
The first thing that stands out painfully and predictably clear to me is the difference between the “official” version and the “feminist” version of the topic. While the first perspective is direct and easily articulates the information, the latter is several times longer, diluted and delusional, filled with rhetoric and unsubstantiated opinions. The government, whether right or wrong in their conclusions, has stated the facts as they understood them to be while the feminists have compounded any semblance of truth with their ‘woe is me’ tales of victimization by the oppressive, male dominated society. It is a classic representation of fact verses fiction under the guise of a report on something which is clearly a contentious subject.
The soviet government correctly saw the disappearance of family values after trying to “force” equality on the national workplace, followed by a masculinization of women and later a feminization of men. The nurturing of children by their mothers fell away and as a result the moral fiber of the nation suffered.
What shocks me (or better yet disgusts me) about all of this is that the results are exactly the same in every country, every demographic and every environment where such changes have ever taken place, yet we never seem to get it. The natural order of life can NOT be improved upon by our feeble minds and ideologies. Men are men and women a re women. How many generations of denial will it take before we finally get on board with the reality of this?
From the link provided by Kisha; “Needless to say, such reversal of natural roles produced an ‘unhealthy imbalance’ in the family, resulting in a high level of divorce, poor parenting, and an alarmingly low birthrate.” Well, duh ! ! !
It doesn’t matter what we see, read, are told or sold, the truth is still the truth. Feminism in every country has proven itself to be a disaster of global proportion. It is the single most destructive socio-political movement in history.
I’d mainly focus on the replies of the Russian women. =]
Though one great point made by the whole study is that Russian women are not getting paid as much as men, even doing exactly the same kind of job.
This is very disappointing.
The battle of the sexes will never be won because both sides keep fraternizing with the enemy. This “double burden” is carried by women who marry men for love and aren’t financially stable. A woman wouldn’t have to crumble under the heavy load of career and family if she married a responsible man who will sufficiently provide for her and their children.
Marriage is no longer sacred. It has become secularized and is watered down with those who diminish its value. Hell, anyone one can get “married” these days, even the queers.
One of my brothers has always been attracted brazen women who I consider whores or the enemy. 10 years ago when he finished college he and the woman who he was living with for 2 years decided to make it official and tie the knot. Since the wedding was in a distant state my family took a flight out west and another 4 hour drive to a remote snowbird town on the border. While we were there we did some sightseeing and stopped in at a local farm to buy a large box of fresh dates. Over the course of 3 days there was a rehearsal dinner, the wedding and reception not to mention all the planning that went into the dresses, flowers, venues, photography, gifts, cards, $, $ and more $. Long story short the marriage only lasted a year and we were still eating dates 3 years after the nuptials so the $20 box of dates lasted longer than the $(thousands of dollars) marriage. What a complete waste of time and resources.
Simply put WOMEN NEED MEN and the double burden that exists for women reinforces this inevitability. A guy gets assets to get a girl and a girl gets a guy to get assets. This has been the power of progression for the human race for centuries. So, what happens when sex is free and money is no object? The answer is “WHY BOTHER” (why work? and why wait?) and to this demise we have arrived.
So you suggest women marry “financialy stable men” when they don’t love them? For the sake of not having the need to work themselves and sustain the family? Doesn’t that sound like prostitution?
Just wondering,
Regards,
Kisha.
Not at all, a man who works toward financial stability is preparing for a woman to stay for a while, hopefully a lifetime. The difference is men don’t pay prostitutes for sex… they pay them to leave.
Love was not the right word choice because love is learned over time. Lust is more fitting. Even in the context of an arranged marriage where the two have never met they can learn to love each other. Most couples aren’t in love, they are in lust and this initial infatuation quickly dwindles when the fun guy who was a great date doesn’t translate into a great mate.
You are so right about all of this Mick. The sanctity of marriage, love verses lust and of course the way we keep ‘fraternizing with the enemy’. I also agree with you about that point in time when ‘the fun guy who was a great date’ turns out to be a less than great mate.
However, I wish to add that the reason for guys not remaining ‘great’ is the modern version of the age old fairy tale ending that today’s women seem to be expecting.
Throughout time, women have waited for the prince in shining armor atop his white steed to come and take them away from their boring life of mediocrity as a house slave or chamber maid. Somehow they assume that once this day comes, everything will be rose petals and cocktail balls. The funny thing is that none of the ‘classics’ ever show what happens in the days, weeks, months and years after the gleaming, ecstatic couple rides off into the setting sun.
Day two after the fairy tale ending, prince ‘charming’ still hasn’t picked up his armor and shield from the bedroom floor. Day three, the princess is picking her own flowers for the table. Day five, the prince is ‘spending more time with his horse than he is with her’ and she wants to see her friends more often. After a few weeks, he stops trying to ‘hide’ his bodily gas escaping and two weeks after that, so does she.
Here’s the ‘real’ fairy tale ending: life is hard by yourself, and often harder as a couple. Life IS NOT a fairy tale and women need to get used to that fact.
While the women are demanding that their men be a prince they are offering up themselves as nothing more than devious, greedy, self serving tramps. How sad that today’s woman has such high standards for others while maintaining so little dignity for themselves.
I’m no prince charming. I’ve always said I was raised by wolves.
There was a segment in a nature program I had watched showing how male Grizzly bears battled for control over a strategic fishing spot. After the position of alpha was established the victor would spend his time lounging around the shoreline guarding the abundant salmon run from the less dominant males. When he wasn’t on sentry duty he would fish with ease and discard all the half eaten carcasses on the rocks that protruded from the rapids. The bears that were able to sneak in and quickly grab the leftovers still ate modestly and the environment was healthy and fertile.
N.O.W. an educated derelict might view this as a bear rights violation and suggest, “There were more fish in that river than any one bear could ever eat and the fish he did catch weren’t even finished, why can’t we just share… LET’S VOTE!” The problem with this mindset or a democracy in general is it reduces everyone to the lowest common denominator. More feeble and scrawny bears will be breeding all the females leading to an over population of sickly offspring, over fishing, less resources, malnutrition, starvation and ultimately a decimation of the entire bear nation.
Marriages will be strong and healthy again when admission is limited to those who have proven themselves worthy to hold the honor.
Interesting example Mike. As for democracy the only thing I think is a good thing is the fact we don’t have to stick with the same corrupted leaders till they die. I think that would be a bad thing for us if we had to have them till they die. We just have to look at countries with dictators to see that. Though I think your example can be used to show we need to be independent etc. Of course the bear can’t catch every fish or eat every fish he catches so the other bears will still not starve to death.
A democracy isn’t about righteousness it’s about whatever is good for you or you or you… is right. I would actually prefer a dictator over mob rule even if he was a tyrant with 3% owners, 7% managers and 90% servants. I hate feminists but those I despise even more are weak irresponsible men with no character who think they are God’s gift to women except they refuse protect and provide for their own. I’m completely against abortion but I am a proponent of the castration of the fathers of murdered children. The law ought to be taken one step further and allow a woman to kill her child as long as the man who got her pregnant agrees to get fixed. Shall we vote? All in favor say aye.
Mick,
A democracy is a system(political)that is based on the rule of the majority. Despite its imperfections, that system has served us well here in the States. I fail to see the connection between a democracy and failure. I also see some strong parallels between your worldview and that of the late Adolf Hitler. You apparently have a blueprint for a person worthy of marriage. Does that eliminate the ugly, the crippled, minorities, those less than 6’6″ with IQs in the 140s, minorities, those worth less than ten million or what? Who makes the rules, you? You may be young, strong and wealthy now, but someday you will be old and weak, if not poor. Should you be left to the coyotes or thrown on a scrap heap? Should you not be allowed to marry because you don’t meet the standards that you advocate?
Thankfully, we are not wild animals! We are not predators, and our survival doesn’t depend on the destruction of those around us. Neither do we have to meet some f…..g, scary, illogical, standards to marry, work and enjoy life.
Mick…
I can’t help but agree with Sam on this one. Your “bear” analogy does sound rather fascist and Nazi-like.
What if a previously wealthy or “responsible” man (or a previously healthy woman) were to get ill? Would that justify their spouse leaving them?
Is a comment like “A guy gets assets to get a girl and a girl gets a guy to get assets” not dehumanising? Akin to prostitution? Is your position not an argument in favour of the “de-evolution” of Man? Human beings are not bears, and I thank GOD that we aren’t.
Mick…
I can’t help but agree with Sam on this one. Your “bear” analogy does sound rather fascist and Nazi-like.
What if a previously wealthy or “responsible” man (or a previously healthy woman) were to get ill? Would that justify their spouse leaving them?
Is a comment like “A guy gets assets to get a girl and a girl gets a guy to get assets” not dehumanising? Akin to prostitution? Is your position not an argument in favour of the “de-evolution” of Man? Human beings are not bears, and I thank GOD that we aren’t.
My ancestors and I have thoroughly enjoyed the last 234 years of mob rule here in the U.S. Once again, I can’t speak for citizens of other countries, but I think we have a good thing going here. You can have your tyrants and dictators. I’ll be an informed voter this November, God willing, and be thankful that I have a voice; a voice protected by the law of the land. I am aware of our problems, and the things that we, as a country, can learn from others around the world, too. Many of us have our ears to the ground, and we are trying our best to learn and grow by observation and diligent study of individuals and countries that will engage us. I’ll continue to speak out for equal opportunity, fight for those who are not in a position to do so, and be thankful for the kindness and generosity of my neighbors. I live in a real community here, and I love it.
Mike I guess we see the world somewhat differently. Of course Democracy has nothing to do with righteousness. That said I look down on politicians and top dogs since I views them as liars and cheats. Our American leaders are worse enough so I hate to see how much worse a dictator is. No one is going to fight for your rights or to keep you from being taken advantage of. Only you will. Unless you have people joining togeather to fight for the same cause. I don’t take handouts but I like having the ability to vote out people who are not doing thier job. Let us be honest how people act also reflects how the government acts. So it should not be suprising to see some American taking handouts, lieing and cheating on taxes and other stuff.
Forward to My Comment
(No nested comments from me)
Mick,
I can sure relate to the story about those dates. I’m a photographer and once photographed a friend’s wedding (his 3rd, actually) and when I called him a couple of weeks after the wedding to deliver the proofs, he said that the marriage was done.
These days I spend a lot of time working with young people, lots of them in college and career groups, and it is always frustrating for me to hear some of them discussing relationships and their long term family goals. While most of these young people, predominately Christians, desire the right kind of relationships, they almost always lack any understanding of what it takes to be a part of such a thing. The guys are skeptical and hesitant about laying their innermost feelings out in the open for fear of being taken advantage of, and the girls are predictably forceful about wanting everything right now or nothing at all. When I was their age the dynamics were almost completely the opposite. It has been very hard showing these people that they’re riding a pendulum which has swung totally to the other side of the target and that they should be ready to jump off in the middle somewhere. Sustained happiness is never found in the extreme.
I believe that we can trace the selfish, ‘all about me’ frame of mind directly back to the feminist movement and all of the fallout which it caused. Listening to young people talking about relationships has shown me that nobody is teaching them (by family example) the fundamental steps toward building a lifetime commitment with another person. They can’t look at their own parents to see what it takes to work through the day to day problems and situations which we all encounter, because so few of them have parents that are still together.
Sadly, many of my other acquaintances who are closer to my age also seem to be struggling over not getting what they want from relationships while being mostly unwilling to contribute anything to what their partner wants. Their reasoning sounds legitimate if you agree that relationships should be somehow fulfilling but most people seem to think that fulfillment is a guaranteed benefit which is automatically built in at ‘no extra cost’. If marriage is an ‘all you can eat’ dinner, then someone better be willing to do some cooking first, lest we all starve.
I’m a Christian, and I have to tell you it’s not easy. MY parents are teaching you how to be a Christian but not 100% all the way. Now I’m growing up with the mind set that Im going to get to meet a Christian girl at worship, I have this set in my heart every single day. But then my parents decide to always go to a place of worship that has hardly any kids or kids my age. I long for the day I’ll met a girl its almost all I think about.
All the mean while I’m hoping all the time I’m going to get to meet this awesome Christian gal. Sometimes I did meet a few, but they were never at the place we worshiped and my parents wouldn’t ever go back to the places but like once in a blue moon if not ever.
My heart is dieing inside its like being ripped away from something. I always treated women with respect, nice to them etc. They always seemed to treat me badly, at least the one’s I always seemed to be interested in.
My parents wonder whats wrong with me and its because I don’t have a woman in my life and it’s basically killing me.
My parents say they care, but when it gets down to the really important things and family. They don’t.
It’s up to you to set things right in your own life family wise and not worry so much about trying to get your parents to understand you when they won’t.
You can’t bypass your negative family history unless you are willing to take charge and be a leader for your own life and future family.
With regards to Kisha’s thought on “women marrying financially stable men when they don’t love them for the sake of not having the need to work themselves and sustain the family”, I would like to suggest that this is exactly where North America stands today.
(by the way, I don’t think that she was saying that any of this is right, but that she was simply trying to offer a reasonable point of view in response to Mick’s post.)
A huge part of the situation is just that; women DO marry for financial gain, as not to ‘have to’ work to sustain a family. They DO marry without love, primarily because the very understanding of true love no longer exists among them. And the worst part is that the legal machine which has been entrusted to oversee the marriage contract is horribly corrupt and one sided in favor of women continuing along this path indefinitely.
If a pet pees on the carpet and is not punished, it will soon believe that it is okay to pee on the carpet. But if that pet is rewarded for peeing on the carpet, it will soon look for every additional opportunity to pee on any carpet that it can find. There, in a nutshell, is the modern, North American, divorce for profit scenario.
Women may not like the analogy comparing them to pets, but this is exactly what has happened with marriage and divorce during my lifetime and I have seen NO valid proof to the contrary.
This IS the state of affairs now and it is very disheartening for us men to see it all play out so constantly and so consistently.
We are not innocent dupes in this picture, nor are we sad shadows of what manhood once was, but MOST men I know; young or old, rich or poor, and even married or single, ALL see the same devastating breakdown in the moral character of women.
Fathers of young girls have always worried about the trouble that dating would bring, mostly because they recalled their own journey into manhood. But now, a big topic of discussion among the fathers in my social circles is how to keep our daughters from becoming the sort of women we see around us every day. That is a paradigm shift in paternal concern from a generation ago.
We all need to recognize the truth that is surrounding us. We live in a world which has succumbed to ultra-liberal, anti-family propaganda and programming. It serves us all to do everything in our power to turn these trends around. Men need to act like men and women need to act like women.
Kisha,
I’m with you on the same pay for the same job. My only concern, which is from personal experience, has to do with ‘equal’ performance within those jobs.
From my perspective, it was always a thorn in my side when I outperformed a woman doing the same job as me but her pay outpaced mine because of ‘automatic’ raises tied to federal mandates and quota requirements.
I came into the workforce at a time of clear reverse discrimination, but there were no politically correct oversight committees standing behind men.
Pay should be attached to performance and ONLY performance. Hard work, not gender, should be rewarded in pay as well as advancement opportunities.
A huge eye opener for me though, regarding the double standard, came much later when I dropped off shirts and blouses at a dry cleaner in the early 80s. My 3 white business shirts cost less to clean and press than my girlfriend’s 2 white business blouses. That really ticked me off. I did get a .50 discount for my 3 shirts, but the basic cost per shirt was lower than the cost per blouse. My arguing the point got me a better deal for that one day, but why did the same items cost more for women than men?
I don’t agree that the glass ceiling has disappeared completely but I also know that it is a very different time now and women who were ‘given’ positions to fulfill quotas years ago fell short in nearly half of the opportunities that they were dropped into.
It was wrong to try to force equality onto the workforce in every country that has ever attempted it, just as it was wrong to try to keep qualified applicants out of any position based on their gender.
This was a solution to the “double burden” not the Final Solution. To get back to point, if a woman isn’t going to work outside the home and raise her cubs then she will have to marry a dominant male who has the fortitude to make up the difference. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
For some reason I missed the following drivel earlier (lots of catching up to do). I will comment on it now.
“I would actually prefer a dictator over mob rule even if he was a tyrant with 3% owners, 7% managers and 90% servants” (Mick)
Ever been a “servant”? I havent, but I don’t think it would be much fun. Or do you expect to be amoung the 3% of managers? If so, you are deluded. Mick, I have read your posts for a long time, and while I have agreed with most of your values*until now*, I have to be honest: you aren’t quite the brightest bulb on the tree, bro. Not by a long, looooooooong shot. Servitude for you without a doubt in the-new-Hitler’s fascist regime.
“I’m completely against abortion but I am a proponent of the castration of the fathers of murdered children.” (Mick)
What the f***??? Afaik in every country where abortion is legal, the father has NO SAY as to whether or not his child is aborted. And you say MEN should pay the price for this by being CASTRATED?
We talk abt how MENS RIGHTS are being trampled on in contemporary society, and you sit their and advocate the castration of men?
We complain about the loss of traditional morality, and you sit there and say things like “The law ought to be taken one step further and allow a woman to kill her child as long as the man who got her pregnant agrees to get fixed.”
Maybe you are just trying to be funny. If that is the case, listen carefully: “No one is laughing”
Serious or not, your comments are those of an ENEMY OF MEN and an ENEMY OF DECENCY, and a damn mentally deranged one at that.
Back to originating comment
Socon,
What do you propose?
-Mick
By the way, it’s good to hear from you and yes, I am a servant.
It appears you and Sam are taking this rather personally and I’m getting the impression you’re trying to dominate me… good luck. There was a saying I heard the other night that made me laugh as I’m doing now, it goes something like this “Force s**ts on the back of reason.”
Mick,
I have learned not to take things personally, if possible. I have no desire to dominate you, unless you try to force your radical ideas on our fine country. The KKK and various militia groups around the world share your beliefs, but they are a minority.
We’re here to celebrate accomplished women who hail from Russia, Ukraine, and other countries in that region, so I will refrain from veering off topic more than I already have.
Sam,
KKK?, Nazi?, Hitler? You keep calling me names and insisting my soliloquy was radical but what could be more radical than homosexuals marrying, than sex outside of the commitment of marriage, than a man marrying a woman who has absolutely no means to provide for a family or a mother killing her child and the father who conceived the child stands idly washing his hands and does nothing. These are the radical views that are being passively and aggressively forced on this great country of ours. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. I’m not forcing my views on anyone but I will react and right now I feel like taking a huge s**t. (Force s**ts on the back of reason).
-Mick
Mick,
Socon addressed your radical views, so there is no reason for me to do the same. As for homosexual marriage, and abortion, and the financial status of those who desire to marry, if you disagree with current law, those things are best addressed through the political process. Perhaps you should run for office or support those who share your views with your time, effort and MONEY!
I do find your reference to personal/private bodily functions offensive, and most women of any caliber would as well. The average citizen would not find your views reasonable, so, again, I fail to see why force would be needed to address them at this time.
[...] I continued. “You know fertility clinics are a big business because they have long lines of women in their … [...]
I was just shown this article for the 3rd or 4th time and thought it might be appropriate to share here. It appears in a Christian based newsletter, but that should not dissuade anyone for any reason. Note who wrote the article and more so, the nature of the video clip.
Simply Google “Where have all the feminists gone?”, read the article
and watch the video clip. If you are ready to believe that there is some way to ‘accept’ the ‘etiquette’ explained there, take a moment to remember who it is that’s presenting these guidelines. It comes from a ‘religious’ leader of a system which demands numerous forms violence as a part of their basic beliefs. Shall we trust his version of ‘following the rules’ for such a thing as this?
For any who don’t know, this is the very real type of islamic law that is being indoctrinated into North American life by way of uncontrolled and unenforced immigration laws. These laws will become “acceptable” by dilution once the voting majority has reached a power level as it has in many parts of Europe.
So, dear feminist, where are you now? Because it is not an offense against Christian women, is it no offense at all? Believe me; it WILL include all of you, eventually.
Hello Richard.
Amazing video clip. “Foreplay” just might be a beating with a short rod or threats?! Hey Islamo-Romeo, have you tried ROMANCE??? Poor women.
-Ken
Sorry, what do you mean when you say, ‘this is the very real type of islamic law that is being indoctrinated into North American life’?
I see absolutely no signs of Islamic law in the American Government whatsoever…
And what do you mean by ‘Islamnic law’? How El Quaeda works? Do you even know the story behind El Quaeda? (Hint: Has to do with the Soviet Union)
I’ve always respected you Richard, you always seemed to be so wise…
Rosebud,
Could you elaborate on that story? I would love to read about it.
Hi Rosebud,
Thank you for the questions and the compliment.
Let me share the results of my limited research into islam as both a religion and as a form of governing it’s people.
The best place to start is with the koran and how it determines discipline and to whom that discipline is administered. Beyond the breaking of hands or removal of fingers for stealing, even on very small children, punishments also include beatings of children and wives and stoning to death of young girls and women for various violations of Sharia; the islamic law.
The way that these laws are being introduced into NA society and as it is already entrenched throughout many parts of Europe is by building up areas and sects within the general population where their people are held to Sharia by the religious leaders of that sect. Because they claim “religious freedom” from the real government, they are able to enforce their own ‘law’ upon those families. It has been happening in Europe for a long time and has begun happening in NA as well.
Do the legitimate governments “sanction” these laws? No. They don’t have to. By simply “allowing” it to take place in the name of religious freedom, they are able to wash their hands of any responsibility. What’s more, with the incredible rate of growth islam is experiencing throughout the world, it is very literally only a matter of time before voting majorities WILL sanction such humanitarian abuses by controlling target areas in every country.
Laughing this off or ignoring that it exists are key parts of the rapid growth towards total intolerance being an acceptable part of our very near future way of life.
The question I posed to the feminists of the world; “Where are you now?” is valid on many levels, but none so clearly as where teenage girls are being stoned to death in public for refusing to marry someone prearranged by parents and religious clerics of fundamentalist islamic sects.
As far as Al-Qaeda is concerned, this has little if anything to do with that group, other than the direct correlation between zealots on both fronts. Al-Qaeda and many hard line islamic clerics and other leaders envision a world completely controlled by islam and completely under Sharia law.
To wonder about any connection between the United States and this radically irrational ‘religion’ one must merely look at the questionable (at best) American president. To say that he denounces his own elected position in favor of islam is a matter of his personal writings in two books that he’s authored. He also refuses to salute the joint chiefs in private or in public, which violates a requirement of his position as Commander in Chief, and he has removed American flags throughout much of the White House, replacing them with traditional islamic religious curtains and adornments. Coincidence?
To attempt all fairness, the reading I have done in parts of the koran show much teaching regarding peace, yet it precedes or follows parts which describe punishments and tortures that no peaceful person would ever accept, much less participate in.
Our future is entirely built upon the cornerstones of our past. As it was once said, ‘Ignoring our past condemns us to repeat it’. If we fail to diligently observe the present, we are living in denial of each passing day and those days will continue to return more vigorously and more painfully until we grow from the knowledge they possess.
I hope that this has better explained some of my previous comments.
Richard,
No offense, but do you have any proof of such action by our president. I know him as a professing Christian who is tolerant of other faiths and “non-faith’ as long as the law of the land is not violated. Since actions speak louder than words, I have always observed his behavior and he has proven to be an excellent husband, father and supportive friend to many. Living in the “Bible Belt” as I do, I am very, very skeptical of “talk” and look for action. Grace is one thing, and fruit bearing another. Everybody around here loudly proclaims their love for God, yet hate for minorities and different cultures is pervasive.
Though this is off topic, it is pertinent. I am not picking a fight, but merely asking for proof. I am open-mined and seek the truth in all things: social, political, economic, and in matters of religion.
There is little use of the law of the land. There is no court of competent jurisdiction to adjudicate the law of the land. There is only commercial law. That is known as the law of the sea, or admiralty law…
There is a way that you can live under the law of the land, or common law. But you would have to change your whole lifestyle, actions, and even speech to do that.
However, you cannot function under just the common law. You would have to set up entities who do your bidding in the commercial law arena, or you simply could not function.
No offense taken Sam. Its an open forum and we learn by sharing our thoughts and views.
Yes, there are dozens of images of the changes and written words from both Mr. and Mrs. Obama regarding those changes. It isn’t being hidden in-so-much as whether or not they are open about the changes, but rather the reasoning behind them.
As far as his professed Christianity, it would be a huge understatement to say his Christian faith is in question. In both of the books he wrote, he speaks openly about placing islam first; ahead of any other belief and ahead of any national loyalty.
Unfortunately it will take the span of time to prove where he really stands on some issues, but I have no trust for an American President who ever refuses to salute active military staff from the lowliest pfc to the joint chiefs. He does not show ANY commonly accepted or expected respect or courtesy to living or dead soldiers and their families during military or state functions. It is my opinion that he greatly lacks any sense of dignity or regard for his position as well as for the people of this country.
When I speak to my peers about God and country, it is always in that order. Despite what many would say in today’s America, we as a nation were settled and founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Many of our early presidents were ordained ministers merely because preaching was taken so seriously by the founding fathers. The capitol building for many years was also used as a church on Sundays.
Tolerance is a common sense belief that I think should be held by any Christian, but that doesn’t mean that we allow our God to be mocked or our families to be murdered. What’s more, if we are tolerant to those who seek to destroy us while they hold NO such tolerance for any other, who is the fool and who is the sinner?
Based on many of the things we’ve both said here, you and I have much in common. Truth is a goal for the intelligent person which should never be fully owned. When we stop seeking truth, we have slipped into arrogance and a closed mind. Hatred and intolerance surely follow.
Yet at some point, many intelligent people will line up on opposing sides of an issue. If we can still interact and communicate despite the differences, our disagreements need not lead us away from the original goal.
Well you’re welcome.
There was a reporter called ‘Tal el Mallohi’ that got captured, tortured and killed recently, so I’m not really in the mood for being a second, thanks… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_Mallohi
I still think you’re very wise, though, I’m sorry, but ignorant when it comes to Islam.
I’m a Muslim. I live in Egypt. When we steal, we go to jail.
If we don’t want to marry someone our parents arranged as a marriage, not even the most insensitive, animal-like, uncivilized, uneducated poor people will come near stoning their daughters. Maybe the mom will scream, the dad will shout, and all the brothers will shake their heads and think to themselves that she’ll never get a husband, but she doesn’t get stoned.
Islam prohibits these things….
You know, it’s sort of ironic how you claim that Muslims stone each other, when in the beginning of Islam, when slaves would convert, their owners would takes them out naked in the midday sun, lay them down on the burning sand, pull a large rock over them, and leave them there to die. I assume that’s what you meant by stoning?
I don’t think people like that would be rushing to a religion that allows such torture, right?
Now I only brought up El Quaeda because that was the only thing I thought you could be mentioning. =P
Oh and to Sam- I’m really sorry, I wish I could tell you, but I do value my life
Back to Richard.. Now, I don’t know why you all think Islam is ‘irrational’..when originally, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam- all the religions that God’s prophets sent down- are the same. They preach the same things. If you take a look in the Bible and skip to lines that Jesus says, you’ll find we have similar things in our Qur’an.
The Qur’an mentions Jesus 25 times, Virgin Mary 34 times, and Moses 136. There’s a whole chapter dedicated to Virgin Mary’s family, and another named Mary. We respect Christians and Jews to a fault. Still think we’re ignorant and it’s irrelevant?
Ask me a question about Islam. Any question. You think it’s nonsensical right? I’ll answer any question you have, unless I feel like I’m about to say something that will possibly get me killed
And Obama? For Islam? Are you kidding me? Did you listen to his AIPAC speech in 2008?!
Thank you very much, Richard. There is an excellent article(“Presence of Mind, God and Country”) about these matters in the October issue of SMITHSONIAN magazine. In the heading, the writer, Kenneth C. Davis, says, “The image of the United States as a bastion of religious tolerance is reassuring–and utterly at odds with the historical record.” I would encourage anyone with a smidgen of interest in current affairs to read the article. This is a worldwide issue, obviously, and it needs to be addressed off the battlefield, if possible.
It saddens me when I read and hear that people define tolerance as appeasement. Speaking for most everybody I know, nothing is farther from the truth. Also, it saddens me to read that fellow citizens feel our President is weak and capitulating when he treats world leaders and the citizens of other countries with dignity and respect. Now, more than ever, we are reliant on our neighbors, and intelligent and thoughtful interaction is sorely needed.
I continue to appreciate your input, Richard. Yes, we have a great deal in common, and I am thankful to know you through this site.
Please try to be fair enough to not misquote me when telling me how “ignorant” I am. I did NOT say that you or ALL Muslims are “. . ignorant and irrelevant . .”
In fact I don’t see either of those words in my last post. Ignorance is lacking in education or knowledge as well as a choice to not learn when the opportunity is made available. Calling me ignorant is a bit out of line in this thread.
Your faith is not the question I am posing. The problem is with people who misinterpret and abuse the words of both of our holy books. Based on history, Christian zealots are every bit as dangerous as any other religious fanatic.
Not only do I consider islam ‘relevant’ in today’s world, I would go so far as to say that people who ignore the rapid growth and terrifying abuse of islam as a banner to hide behind while committing horrific atrocities, to be blind to possibly the biggest threat to a free world since the Nazis.
Just so you know, I got that analogy from a Muslim couple in the greater Vancouver area. They compared radical islam to Nazi death camps and Hitler’s death squads. They are terrified for their family’s safety because radical islamic elements throughout the world hide under the same religious title.
I believe that “most” Muslims would prefer peaceful coexistence rather than world domination through violence and force. Unfortunately they are being grouped together with a very fast growing sub-sect of islam which has no tolerance what-so-ever for any ‘infidel’ of any nation.
If you refuse to accept the harsh reality that your religion is being abused and misused to force a terrible political agenda with absolutely no regard for human life, then I have to say that I am not the ignorant one in this discussion. The proof is everywhere. It is impossible to avoid in this media saturated world.
The stoning I am talking about is definitely not theory or retelling of stories about ancient slave rituals. A 14 year old girl being publicly humiliated and then pelted with baseball sized rocks until she was dead in a street at midday, this summer, because she refused to marry a man in his 50s through a prearranged marriage was a world wide news story in the Christian community. One person seeing the video said, “Notice how they cover her when her panties are exposed but kick her and drop a cinder block on her head”.
In Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and countless other countries including India, tens of thousands of “honor killings” take place every year under the cover of Sharia. The crimes include being raped (the rape victim is put to death) demanding a divorce from a violent husband (again the victim of the violence is then killed for speaking out) falling in love without permission and so on.
And the video I saw this year of a 9 year old having his hand held under a truck wheel by his father and uncle while the truck crushed his hand for stealing food is not the only one of that sort that I have seen in my career.
As a Christian I must share that title with every lunatic who has ever committed some terrible crime “in the name of God” and as a Muslim you too must share your choice of faith with these people who abuse your beliefs. Just because you don’t agree with those crazy people, does NOT mean that they do not exist.
Studying religion along with its role on history I can say with confidence that the “core” teachings of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and all the religions that God’s prophets sent down, are NOT the same. Many teaching within most religions are “similar” and many have ties to the others in some places throughout time. But they are certainly not the same. Countless variations exist even within Judaism. Also within Christianity, and obviously within islamic beliefs as well. If it were not so, this discussion would never have taken place.
When you mentioned Tal el Mallohi, you said she has been “tortured and killed recently”. I know of her story but had not heard of her execution. HOWEVER, whether she is alive or not, WHO TOOK HER PRISONER and WHO HAS TORTURED HER? Between 85 and 90 percent of the Syrian population is Muslim. Two thirds of the political parties are led by Muslim clerics. WHY WAS TAL TAKEN PRISONER? Because she said things in her blog that disagreed with the Muslim dominated political leadership of the country. I don’t think that Tal’s case is an example that helps you to convince me that what I’ve said earlier is too far off.
The islamic unrest in cities like Paris are strong, current, blatantly clear examples of middle of the road believers taking a stand against conformity with the laws and expectations of their country of emigration. If they don’t want assimilate into and become part of another country, then they should never have gone there. To change homeland and then demand that the new country assimilate to you is not emigration, it is invasion.
I will gladly ask you any questions I may have about your faith if would show me the courtesy of sharing the religion only and not the rhetoric, and I will offer you the same for my faith.
I’ve thought about posting any views from outside sources based on two concerns; relevance to the topic at hand and possible bias of other people in expressing their views.
For anyone interested in my last post, consider this short video clip. It is current, relevant to the post and seems to be unbiased enough to share.
http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnplayer.swf?aid=17933
Wolverine,
I can’t speak for Canada, but the law is well-enforced here in North Carolina. As for freedom of religion, people have the right to worship as they desire in this country. Now, if a center of worship becomes a “Trojan Horse” for radical groups of any faith wishing to do harm, that’s another matter. That’s a matter of breaking the law. That’s where tolerance stops and law enforcement comes in. If I desire to build a Presbyterian Church, as far as federal and state law is concerned, I have every right to do so. If my university buddy, Waleh Saleh, wishes to build a mosque, as far as federal and state law is concerned, he has every right to do so. If either one of us uses that facility to propagate hate, and destruction, we both should be thrown in jail. That’s the law of the land. Come down to North Carolina and violate the law, and I can assure you that you will be stopped.
Sam, I don’t wish to argue, and this is hardly the place to argue about the forms of law in the US and Canada. However I have studied this for years, and I can tell you this, common law which is built on a long tradition of judgments based on a few basic laws is not the law that people in the US live under. In the UCC and USC, it says that all crimes are commercial. Commerce means Law Merchant with paper posing as money. Law of the land requires men and women to pay with substance for the things they buy. In 1913 when they suspended the gold standard, and started issuing commercial paper in it’s place, they suspended the law of the land. They couldn’t fulfill the contracts because substance was no longer ‘acceptable’ in the public for payment of debts.
If you were to do said ‘crime’ there, and were taken to court, if you would demand trial by the ‘law of the land’ in the court, the judge will basically tell you that he is not competent to adjudicate that matter under those terms.
I believe there is one court in the 4th circuit that is able to adjudicate such matters with ‘law of the land’.
Law of the sea, or admiralty is the only way that they can make the current system work.
Look carefully. Does your state charter say that it is a common law jurisdiction, or a jurisdiction with a common law tradition???
wolverine,
Most of what you are saying here about common law and admiralty law is spot on; technically. It is true that the the two basic underlying forms of accepted legal behavior and the manners in which they are carried out ceased to exist with expanded government in the 18th century. It is also very true that there are few continental courts qualified to oversee any demand for common law, and none for admiralty law. Where the problem comes in for many people who have researched this, as you clearly have, is that no standing court in North America is required to hear or else summarily dismiss your case pleading.
Lots of people in the 80s were trying to print their own money, legal documents and so on, but the reality is that whether they have a “legal” right to do so or not is irrelevant if no local, state or federal court is in any way obligated to make a decision on their case.
I can mint my own money, and have. I can use it where ever it is accepted. Yet if nobody accepts it, it all becomes pretty little collector coinage worth its weight in the metal its made of. (which is fine with me, by the way) No bank has to take my coins and the US and Canadian governments do not recognize them as legal tender. So what. The same institutions don’t accept gold and silver jewelry at weight value either but I know places that do.
When we allow people to govern us, we bow to their authority. When those in power fail to fulfill the job they were given, we replace them. When the system as a whole fails, we ‘should’ replace it, or at least everyone within it.
Everyone in NA should Google the quotes of Thomas Jefferson sometime. It is amazing how well he saw the danger that lay ahead for our nation.
I’ll argue a bit on this one. I know for a fact in Alberta at the Superior Court level that they will hear cases in Admiralty. A friend of mine had a case tried in Admiralty. However, the courts will refuse to hear a case in Common law on public record. That doesn’t mean that they won’t have that hearing in chambers. But there is no public record of this.
Equity law (also called statutory law which it appears we are under in North America) is based mostly on commercial law or the law of the sea. Sometimes, I have heard it referred to as the law of merchants.
As for the legal paper these people were generating, it wasn’t really legal. That stuff was like joining the major league baseball game, and then trying to play with your own set of rules. That doesn’t work. You need to have standing, and a set of rules to play the game with.
As for printing your own currency, true. All you need is a piece of paper, a value written on it, and the signatures of the debtor on the right and the creditor on the left.
I knwo about the whole thing of guys trying to create their own currency and circulate it. The mistake they all made was to try to equate it as a dollar. They cannot do that. They also tried using disproportionate values other than those found in the coinage acts. At par, a troy oz of gold is worth $42.2222 US. That is why the mint makes a one oz $50 coin. Rounded for simple numbers. A dollar in silver is .73244 troy oz. Now, you have yahoos going out, and making a one oz $50 silver coin, and a $1000 one troy oz gold coin. that cannot stand as it creates the devaluation of real money. Had they called it 50 liberties, or something like that, they wouldn’t have been bothered… Treaties going way back in time do not allow individuals to make currencies denominated in the denominations of a sovereign nation. However it allows individuals to make their own currencies, and banks did that up until the late 1870′s in the US.
Perhaps, Richard, we should continue this discussion away from this blog, as it isn’t related to the discussion in reality. If you want, you can email me a amosfella@hotmail.com
Wolverine,
It would be ridiculous for me to engage in a debate about legal terms and concepts, because I am totally unqualified to do so. My point was that in America we are provided certain freedoms. Freedom to worship or not worship is a cornerstone of our Republic. People have died for my freedom to worship in the Presbyterian Church. People have died so that others can publicly profess their unbelief, agnosticism, etc. This freedom and tolerance is treasured by most decent,thinking people I know. Now, if the “State” begins to pick and choose religions and people within certain faith groups advocate violence, the law has been violated and it must be enforced. My point is that it is strongly enforced in this state. Just this past spring, excellent intelligence work in the Raleigh area led to the arrest of several people who were planning to plant bombs, etc. Not surprisingly, they were aligned with some radical or extreme group. Our system has worked beautifully for over 200 years and I expect it to continue to.
Richard, my ancestors fled Europe because the “State” chose a religion and forced top down acceptance of it. Though they were practicing Christians, they refused to be told when, or where to worship. No one can deny our country’s Judeo-Christian heritage or the role both faiths play in our gov’t, and most agree that our heritage should be protected and celebrated. But few advocate a stronger gov’t role in what is perceived by devout people to be a private matter. The historical record of atrocities committed by gov’ts and individuals in the name of God is clear, and human nature being what it is, that history must not be allowed to repeat itself on American soil.
Alright Richard, touche.
)
All I have to say about those lunatics is that if they took the time to read the Qur’an carefully they’d realize that they’ve stepped out of Islam a long time ago. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that killing and torturing is prohibited. Hypocrisy- like doing things that Islam prohibits under the name of God- is one of our own deadly sins. Also, our Prophet (S) warned us to stay away from extremists of any sort.
So obviously, our own Prophet wouldn’t commit his own deadly sin, by telling people to stay away from extremists and then raise them in his garden, right?
My argument here is that those people aren’t actually Muslims anymore, but they don’t know it.
As for Tal, I can read quite fine without your using caps lock, thank you very much.
Tal was talking about pro-Palestinian things. How does that disagree with the ‘Muslim dominated political leadership of the country’, when most Muslims would agree with her? Why would Syria take her in? Perhaps she went out of line, and said something that could blow off the whole peace treaty between Syria and Israel, which would be Hell for them.
I apologize for telling you that she was murdered- I was referring to a poorly-written article. Though in all fairness she could be dead.
Alright, I do have a question for you: Putting aside all the man-made variations (excluding, of course, the prophets) how are the core teachings of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, different?
Why do you think God would make three different religions? So people can get into fights about which one is ‘right’ or which one is better, or most-loved by God?
There were many prophets before Moses, most of them we don’t even know. They all preached God’s word. They were like Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, except they didn’t get to become so widely known, because they had very, very few followers. So my question to you is why would God send down so many religions? Because if you believe that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are completely different at their core, then obviously the same would be for Noah, Joseph, and the rests’ religions as well.
As for what’s happening in Paris, you’re talking about it like they’re going in there demanding the right to own bombs.
I have no idea about what the immigration system is like in Paris, but in the end they let people emigrate there, right?
Whether those immigrants are black, white, or olive skinned doesn’t matter,right? Obviously France won’t practice racism so publicly, if at all. So these men and women come in wearing whatever they wear and mainly conforming to life in France, or for the sake of the argument, Paris.
So when Muslim women come in, they should have the right to keep their headscarf on.
If you’re looking at the problem by means of identification, then the headscarf poses no problem. If it were the niqab (the headscarf plus extra fabric covering the face) then, I agree, they should take it off. People aren’t identified solely by their hair, but with their face. The niqab could pose a serious threat to security, but the headscarf? Unless you think that some lunatic will stick a bomb under there, which is pretty hard to do without leaving visible bomb lines. (Worse than pantylines?
I bet you’ll tell me that someone out there has made a teensy weensy bomb that would be able to be completely concealed by the headscarf. In that case, I’d like to point out that such a bomb would be able to be concealed anywhere on someone’s person, be it in the folds of someone’s hat or in some freak’s bra. (It’s a possibility!)
So is Paris going to ban bras? Hats? The headscarves that nuns wear? No. They won’t.
But if it’s a Muslim girl- ‘Ohhhh noo! She must be hiding something under there!’
That’s discrimination. When they ban the nun’s headscarves, then they can ban our higabs.
(Which, by the way, is bound to happen sooner or later… http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3731368.stm )
Sam,
Thank you for your comments. The more we write, the more we may find both wide chasms and sturdy bridges; the benefits to be enjoyed by all.
Great tip on Ken Davis’ latest piece. It is a good read, for sure.
It might go without saying that I don’t fully agree with his conclusions and commentary, but he certainly has a ‘history of great writing about history’.
Davis is keen on digging up the obscure letter or speech but frequently passes over the larger body of work left to us by our founding fathers and other historical figures. I understand his reasoning because, like most of us, he has an agenda too. If I look at the bits and pieces he highlights I might be led to believe something different, but if I also accept his conclusions I would most likely be sucked into his perception of reality.
We all have an obligation to assess the information we receive and formulate our opinions accordingly. Using Davis’ examples and how he draws the conclusion that each of these historical statements ‘confirms’ that the authors were seeking a purely secular government is nonsense. Unless Ken is using a different definition of ‘secular’ than I am, the writings say nothing about a government of non-spiritual leaders and laws, but rather that the two should not be overlayed as to cause a confusion over which was at the forefront in decision making. While most of our first leaders were clearly religious people, they wanted to specifically avoid one thing when setting up the new government; that being any chance of a monarchy coming to power. By eliminating the mandate of a religious framework, they were able to accomplish two things: first no church or family could gain power and then reset a monarch to run it, and second, to halt any fights over ‘which church’ would be in power. Then, by declaring independence as a nation and by framing an entirely new form of national government, they hoped that no monarch would ever sit at the head of this new country. Their fundamental beliefs were argued frequently from all that I’ve read, yet they were united under the cause of a free governing people with equal rights to worship in any manner they chose.
Ken’s grasp of history is impressive and his enthusiasm toward the ongoing study of it is admirable, however I fear that he and I would not debate well since we are clearly in disagreement over translating the meaning of what our forefathers were trying to say. But neither of us were there in 1776 so our opinions will probably stay set as ever in their current camps.
I have to add that my opinions regarding the president are also pretty deeply entrenched. I don’t see him as being a congenial and respectful person or leader. I see him as highly biased and would go almost to the point of calling him bigoted in many ways. While he shows respect for leaders of Muslim countries he also disrespects people within his own country. The numerous little gestures of tradition and courtesy that every previous president has shown without question, Mr. Obama routinely ignores. I find him embarrassing to this country on many levels. His policies and procedures are showing to be handled with arrogant disregard for protocol and sometimes even legal standing. My sadness when speaking of our president is centered on the apparent fact that we are now living in a time when every successive president will probably be more of an embarrassment than the one before him.
*cough*
‘I will gladly ask you any questions I may have about your faith if would show me the courtesy of sharing the religion only and not the rhetoric, and I will offer you the same for my faith.’
I did ask you a question you know. I don’t just write time-consuming quotes to look cool.
*time-consuming comments
rosebud,
If you want to openly share ideas and debate our views, stop acting as if someone has attacked you. I sure as hell haven’t.
When you make comments like, “I can read quite fine without your using caps lock, thank you very much” and “I don’t just write time-consuming quotes to look cool”, how am I supposed to take it other than a slam against the way I write down my thoughts? If that is the case, then how am I supposed to engage you on a personal level while you are casually tossing around these childish insults?
Yes, you have asked questions and I will gladly give you my perspective but consider it AN OPINION not an attack.
(CAP LOCK TO SHOW EXCLAMATION ON THOSE TWO WORDS PURELY FOR MY OWN BENEFIT, thank you very much.)
I believe that there is one, true God.
I believe that there have been many prophets.
I believe that there have been many more versions and translations of the Word of God than there have been prophets.
I believe that every person ever born on this earth will one day face God and be held accountable for their lives.
I believe that the original words of nearly all of the prophets have been rewritten and re-translated so many times and in so many languages that much of the original meaning and intent has been changed, or merely lost forever.
I believe that God has chosen prophets in different areas of the world and at different points throughout history for a very specific reason, and that His reasons are truly known only to Him.
I believe that EVERY religion is EITHER an interpretation of divine prophecy created by MAN, or merely a man made scam to promote some very un-Godly agenda.
I also believe that EVERY version of EVERY modern practiced religion is MISSING the mark, as is EVERY believer.
In MY opinion, we are human beings, not gods, or lesser gods, or becoming gods, or anything else god-like. We are created in the image of our God, but we are not “like” Him. Our power is limited to our belief in where and how we live on this planet for the time we are given.
In MY opinion, there is no amount of work or wealth that can assure us eternal life, but rather that our committed faith and that alone will secure our destiny.
I promote the sharing of God’s teachings and the gathering together for worship at every available opportunity, but oppose building thousands of churches and flaunting the relative wealth of those churches and their parishioners.
My reading of English translated texts from the Torah and Tanakh as well as the Qur’an and several other versions of various religions’ bibles shows me countless deviations in beliefs, even though the primary message remains almost the same throughout.
I believe that the basic message of ANY legitimate religious teaching is that the single most important concept God has given us is to love one another before ALL ELSE. Any departure from that is either heresy or simply not of any spiritual value at all.
Now, with all that said (and much more of my beliefs and values still unspoken) it would be extremely foolish of me to deny the fact that thousands, tens of thousands or even millions of professed Christians over the generations have stood with a King James Bible in one hand and a Christian cross in the other while participating in the executions of countless humans who’s crime was skin color or personal beliefs. It HAPPENED. It is STILL happening.
It would be equally foolish for any professed Muslim to deny that there are millions of other professed Muslims in the world who are currently holding the Holy Qur’an in one hand while beheading an “infidel” who’s only crime was believing something different. It IS happening today all around the world.
Ten members of a Christian aid team were murdered in northern Afghanistan on Aug. 5 after spending three weeks providing medical care to villagers. Six Americans, a Briton, a German and two Afghans were ambushed when they stopped to eat lunch. Yes it was the Taliban who claimed responsibility for the killings, accusing the team of spying and being Christian missionaries, however they claimed to have carried out the killings in the name of islam.
When thousands of professed Muslims block off sections of London to shout “Death to the infidels” “Death to America” and “Death to the Zionists” they are NOT protesting against other countries failing to acknowledge some form of religious clothing.
When thousands of professed Muslims block all traffic and commerce in downtown Paris at midday to DEMAND that the French government supply them with more buildings to worship in, they are NOT saying that they’re being denied the right to wear a berka’, niqab, or forehead veil.
These are mainstream, middle of the road, very average modern (professed) Muslims who act as if they believe the entire world should bow to their every whim and decree.
Every country that submits to such extortion is ignorant to the value of human life and existence. Any nation who cowers to such a people as those who demand everything and offer nothing should, and will fall. The ‘islamification’ of Europe, and soon North America as well, under these circumstances is leading the world into darkness. Invasion of sovereign nations by dilution of the indigenous people is still an invasion. Just ask any first nations people on my continent.
To be honest, rosebud, it really doesn’t matter to me whether or not you agree or disagree with my perception of the dangers inherent to your religion as it is being spread throughout the world today by fanatics who have lost all touch with the teachings of the Holy Qur’an. What does matter to me is that we all force ourselves to the reality that our beliefs are more often abused than used in today’s world and that we as true believers remain steadfast in our resolve to promote the divine Word of our God and that we openly denounce all who defile it.
I am not trying to make fun of you, by time consuming comments I was referring to the fact that I wasted my morning writing that instead of writing an essay! richard, I am not trying to attack you nor do I feel attacked! I really, really am not trying to slam the way you write- I love the way you write! I used to be your biggest fan.. you know, until now.
And I’m not denying the fact that there are Muslim extremists doing that! I’m simply telling you that they’ve unknowingly stepped out of their own religion by becoming extremists! Am I denying the fact that they exist? No! In fact, I’d really like to see those videos you talked about, for the sake of education!
Honest to God richard, I didn’t mean to upset you.
What I really don’t understand is when you said, “I also believe that EVERY version of EVERY modern practiced religion is MISSING the mark, as is EVERY believer.” So, then what do you think is the mark?
“When thousands of professed Muslims block all traffic and commerce in downtown Paris at midday to DEMAND that the French government supply them with more buildings to worship in, they are NOT saying that they’re being denied the right to wear a berka’, niqab, or forehead veil.” Again, I apologize. I really didn’t think you meant these riots. Please be clearer, as I have to struggle to understand what you’d mean when you bring up Paris…where there was a big debate over the whole thing.
I still really don’t understand how America and Europe are being Islamified in the least. Again, please listen to Obama’s AIPAC speech made in 2008 and you’ll see.
“In MY opinion, there is no amount of work or wealth that can assure us eternal life, but rather that our committed faith and that alone will secure our destiny.” Very true, and I don’t think you’re the only one with that opinion.
“I believe that the original words of nearly all of the prophets have been rewritten and re-translated so many times and in so many languages that much of the original meaning and intent has been changed, or merely lost forever.” But do you agree that before all these translations, before any changes made to the messengers, there was only one Message, right? One core belief. I agree, at face level the three religions are very different…which they’re not really supposed to be… Again ,why would God mislead people and break them apart, when, like you said, “the basic message of ANY legitimate religious teaching is that the single most important concept God has given us is to love one another before ALL ELSE.”
Thank you for clarifying that for me. Yes, I did feel that you had taken me wrong and also that you were offended and being offensive in return. Thank you again and I apologize for misunderstanding you.
Regarding the videos, I don’t know if any or all that I have seen are still circulating. My response is to delete them once I’ve seen as much as I can handle. I usually have a great deal of trouble watching them all the way through because of the fact they are real killings. (I still have trouble with seeing the Viet Nam prisoner being shot in the head after interrogation on a public street back in the 70s) If I was to come across the links again, I might forward them only under the most serious warning about how graphically disturbing they are.
Regarding, “EVERY version of EVERY modern practiced religion is MISSING the mark, as is EVERY believer”, I believe that our spiritual calling is ultimately to try to live a sinless life. We can’t. We will all fall short. Every religion is comprised of other people and opinions, all of whom are also falling short. Add to that the amount of religious (church) doctrine and dogma which is slipped into everyone’s spiritual feeding and we must accept that our leadership is as flawed as the rest of us. Thus, in my opinion, EVERY version of EVERY modern practiced religion is MISSING the mark, as is EVERY believer. For me, that gives us all a great deal of hope. We clearly have something spiritually to strive for in our daily lives. That is a blessing, I think.
Again, my apologies for lacking clarity regarding the unrest and riots in Paris and London this summer.
Trying to fully explain my feelings regarding the “islamification” of Europe and North America would take hours of writing or discussion. My attempt to synopsize it here was in poor judgment on my part. The things I’ve already mentioned that are going in Europe are a part of the story, but it goes much deeper than that. I heard Obama’s AIPAC speech and have even gone back to transcripts of it for reference. Since I seriously doubt him as a man of honor, it would be pointless for me to take shots at each part of his speech. I see him as a deceitful and completely dishonest person, but that is just another of my personal opinions.
By the way, I’m happy to see that we agree on “works and wealth” being misused as a ticket to eternity. The majority of religions have conditions by which one can “earn” the favor of God. I just see God as much ‘bigger’ than that.
I totally agree that the one God gave one basic message to this world, and that the message was of love, not violence. Yes, indeed, before the words received by all of the prophets were altered and rewritten to fit the changing world around us, the message was universally sound. Love your fellow man before anything, beyond anything and above all else. Remember it is not God who misleads, or misled people. It was the humanistic translators and self serving government leaders and their minions who have always misled the rest of us to our own peril. A true monotheistic God would be unable to lie or mislead His children for the very reasons that you suggest.
I think we are much closer than we may have shown here.
Prayers and blessings to you.
Thanks again, Richard, for your input. Regardless of Ken’s conclusions or those of many others, practical experience tells me that gov’t involvement in religion is dangerous. At the same time, I think the influence of Christianity and Judaisam accounts for the success and the decency of our citizenry.
Recently, after a Christian prayer was offered at a local high school football game, the participating minister extended an “altar call”. A healthy debate ensued, and continues today. Many quotes from founding fathers have been shared. Many divisions and doctrinal differences within the Christian Church have been highlighted. To be frank, the disagreements between intelligent people of different denominations is almost frightening. This supports my belief that the gov’t has no business picking and choosing religions. Once again, I say believe as you wish, but live and let live.
As for the President, he professed his Christian faith once again within the last two weeks in a yard in Arizona(I believe). He also attended a Christian(though somewhat radical)Church in Chicago for twenty years. Several ministers that I am familiar with have worshiped with him and testify to his faith and good heart. Though his policy is much more centrist than people believe, philosophical differences are real.
I think we as a nation and we as a world have important issues at hand, and we had better address them quickly. We’re bogged down in idiotic things and we are losing ground.
I would love to hear some input from Eastern Europe about these matters. They do have a direct impact on marriages, and family, so they are relevant.
I sure agree with you Sam, that the line between religion and government is a key to our strength as a nation, yet the abuse of that “line” has torn down nearly every safe guard intended by our forefathers, in my opinion. We have gone so far passed the intent of our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights that the documents themselves are probably crying tears of shame.
Certainly the Judeo-Christian values held by nearly everyone who fought to build this country were the basis for our way of life, and those people were wise enough to know how to separate matters of personal belief from the business of running a government. Objectivity superseded selfish motives for most leaders of the day. (It amazes me that there is still any need at all for the clowns of our generation to continue haggling over something that has already been so clearly laid out for us)
All I can say about the minister who offered an altar call after praying at a high school football game is; What the hell was he thinking? Being allowed to pray at a high school event of any kind in today’s environment is a bonus for those who support it, but going that far is like throwing a bucket of gasoline onto an open flame and being surprised by the ensuing fireball. However, while I think the minister was wrong to do what he did, I still do not agree with ACLU minded liberalism and its completely watered down version of constitutional understanding which would call this a violation of church and state. (I’m sure that’s the foul being charged by those who are fighting against what took place)
It is hard for me to speak about the Obamas and their religious beliefs mostly because their story has so many contradictory pages. In both of his books (Dreams From My Father and The Audacity of Hope) Mr. Obama makes references to his underlying belief in and commitment to islamic faith.
Can a person change their spiritual beliefs? Of course, and thank God for that or else I would be hooped. But as my Bibles say, we are to ‘check the fruit of the tree’ and that ‘no man can serve but one master’.
I respect a person who is true to their faith despite any differences I have with the beliefs taught in that faith. (not those who profess their faith and then overtly act outside of those teachings or misrepresent themselves as believers when they are clearly not)
I have a great deal less respect for those who flip-flop on their spiritual beliefs or those who are easily led in this direction or that by other people in their life.
Our spirituality is possibly the most personal thing we will ever posses in this life. If we fail to be firm in such a vital area, my thought is that we are also likely to lack resolve in every other part of life.
With regard to Mr. Obama’s time under Jeremiah Wright at the Trinity United Church of Christ, I’d have to say that calling that church ‘somewhat radical’ would be akin to calling the oceans ‘somewhat wet’. I’m really not trying to be rude or offensive, but from all I’ve heard, Wright and his parishioners are a “who’s who” of anti-white racists and anti-government activists.
Mrs. Obama has said that she was instrumental in her husband’s decision to openly accept Christianity if he ever hoped to reach his political goals. That has never set well with me.
As with the disruptors and the extremists we’ve been discussing recently, a profession of faith means very little when compared to the actions of those making the profession. I guess I would like to see a man who was given a Nobel Peace Prize be a lot more objective on equality among religious and spiritual groups when playing to the world stage.
In a time where marriages and families are steadily declining, and the economy is in upheaval, we need leaders at every level who represent non partisan, moderate agendas which benefit the majority first rather than dozens of individual little special interests and fractional minorities.
What is good for the majority might not be perfect for a few, but it does the best for the most.
(a little oops up there; passed should have been past)
“Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about his religion.
Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.
Seek to make your life long and of service to your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend,
or even a stranger, if in a lonely place.
Show respect to all people, but grovel to none.
When you rise in the morning, give thanks for the light,
for your life, for your strength.
Give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason to give thanks, the fault lies in yourself.
Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools
and robs the spirit of its vision.
When your time comes to die,
be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death,
so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time
to live their lives over again in a different way.
Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.”
by Native American Leader and Shawnee Chief Tecumseh(March 9, 1768-October 5, 1813). Tecumseh has been variously translated as “Shooting Star” or “Panther Across the Sky”.
Richard and Rosebud, thanks for your comments and civility. I thought the quote from the old Chief might be appropriate here.
Thank you Sam. Those are some of the most profound words that I’ve ever seen.
Richard, thank you for your understanding
Time and time again God told us about how the Prophets made huge mistakes, and that we’re not striving to be perfect here.
I wish I could abuse Obama a bit with you (he’s not so popular over here either) but I don’t really get to hear much about him…except that he’s not exactly Mr. Dream President that we all hoped for after eight years of Bush. He sure is, but I wonder who is he really being serious with…
You sir have the mark.
So, no hard feelings? Am I still allowed to be your number one fan?
Many prayers and blessings to you too.
Ouf sorry *he sure is deceiving
Hi Rosebud,
Is there anything wrong with tolerance in your mind? I live and work with neighbors who share my Christian faith, but the doctrinal differences between our denominations are significant. I also have friends that are agnostic, atheists, Muslims, etc., and we accept our differences and search for common ground. As far as I am concerned, one should live and let live as long as someone or some organization is not trying to do violence, break the law, or force beliefs on others. It appears that extremists in all faiths are the problem. The Bible is full of some pretty violent scripture, and the same is true for other religious texts. One can make a case for anything, but the majority of people of all faiths seem to be peace loving and fruitful, regardless of what their Holy books contain.
Uhm no, I have no problems with tolerance, be it on religious or racial grounds… Did I come off like I do?
I’m sorry!
I keep finding that I sound like such a bad person online!
No, I really don’t….Most of my teachers are atheists, my best friend when I was living in America was Jewish ( her mother helped mine out when she had breast cancer…so I owe them a lot) and needless to say, I’ve had many Christian friends when living over there!
So no, I think having friends and loved ones from all walks of life is a positive.
Hi Rosebud,
No, you did not sound intolerant at all. You certainly don’t sound like a bad person! I just was interested in your thoughts on the subject. By the way, if possible, could you tell us “roughly” where you live? I very much interested in what people from Russia and surrounding countries think about things. Thanks for your response.
Sam,
Though, every Egyptian man here knows about Russian women, so I guess we have been influenced 
Thank you for your reassurances
I think it’s just that a lot of thoughts go through my head, and only 25 percent go down in these comments, so what I say may mean something to me and something different to others… I think I will have to fix that…
I live in Cairo, which really isn’t saying much as Cairo contains so many provinces and such.
Over here, we are taught to be very open and tolerant with people from different backgrounds…
Oh but Egypt is soooooo far away from Russia
Loved the poem by the way
In the name of clarity…
The vast cultural media is a mind-bending device
for social engineering. We are expected to tow
the line or suffer the consequences. From many
perspectives.
How many substantive artists, in any medium, has
anyone here heard defending the family or traditional
values on the NWO media? What? None?
We who are in agreement with the traditional family
and countries, are shunned and ostracized; leaving,
by default, only lunatic depraved culture such as
GagMeWithASpoon. You know who I mean.
It’s time that that scurrilous practice was challenged
and ended. You would not believe the amount of high
end art and culture which is stepped on because it doesn’t
conform to socialism/feminism/nwo agendas. They steal from
the world. Constantly.
Any art, or culture which is constructed for the purpose
of engineering an agenda is bereft of all the usual qualities
which allow great art and culture to cross the millennia.
My point is to personally challenge this precept that if it’s institutionally backed that that somehow implies substantive merit. Couldn’t be further from the truth.
Many who control the underpinnings of culture are extremely
antagonistic to traditionalists such as myself. I posted here
so that some of our side would have a chance to weigh in on
what they think is best.
1 vote cannot count for 100. But it does. And this is the
dilemma. The manipulation of “perceptions”.
Sculptor,
Wonderful post. Spot on in so many ways. There is great value in hearing from artists who speak up with words as well as their other chosen mediums.
Would you agree that it is often not only the right but also the duty of artists to express their indigence for social injustice with their work?
Does it seem to you that overall the artistic community has succumbed to convention and political correctness? I find less quality of expression in much of today’s artwork. Even though it is merely my perception and possibly an old fashion desire to understand the artist’s intent, but lately it has looked to me as if there are very few stand out painters, sculptors, photographers or other artists rising to the top. Or is this more because of the cultural pressures and constraints you speak of?
Are your creative efforts available for viewing anywhere?
Richard thank you for your comments and questions…
Not just in sculpture or painting or the visual arts general.
Political correctness is a culture disease as well as social.
Why? Because great art is naturally timeless. What is timeless?
Traditional themes which stand the test of time. Over and over.
I could easily remove myself from this issue and still easily
make my point. I say this as I admire those who are truly
gifted, regardless of their medium.
There are no stand out artists “yet” because those of merit often create politically incorrect work. This is part of what I seek to
change. A template which allows direct access to artists as
opposed to the very manipulated private gallery system. It’s still
a primarily in-person business.
There are cracks which begin to appear in the PC Only system. I would hope that my own wedge is part of it.
No. Not all gallery owners, and certainly not their entire clientele exclusively support politically correct art. Many are just highly cultured normal family people as most in the world.
Who owns and operates the major television/visual networks?
So how do some supportive gallery owners get out a newsworthy
artist’s work to the general public? Yes, it’s possible to
show and speak about something non-political. Just not if the
artwork is about the greatness of the traditional family
specifically defending, for example, the traditional definition
of family. Taking this on in “their media” is still akin to career
suicide. So most voices are silent.
How can any great art be born of feminist anger or rage? “Oh look Johnie at the women’s glee in burning down the house that Man made.” What sensible person, normal person would want this in their normal family home?
Creating the perception that politically correct issues have the majority support.
Name a pop singer. Listen critically. Then listen to Jackie
Evancho. I call her The Joy of Angels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnSEdl5GPG4
Jackie’s parents are the typical traditional family parents.
How about Charice who sings “A Note To God”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Xd435coD4&feature=fvst
Charice was born and raised in one of the world’s most
traditional and conservative value-based societies and cultures.
See any normalcy in GagMe’s songs?
http://www.jogyjogy.com/watch.php?id=1cf6a
Who wouldn’t love to sit through this with their kids?
Who makes up the majority of her audience? School kids?
Subliminal messaging? You decide.
Who is the media darling among the three? Accident?
Many people are brought to tears by two of the above. Ever
heard of anyone crying after hearing GagMe? Who has true
talent for singing without all the sexual props?
Sex is great. But would I want my kids giving a “Like” to
GagMe instead of tiny Jackie with her extraordinary gift?
I’ll be happy to invite you all to give a vote in my upcoming
challenge of merit, with the link. Just like what you like. The results will speak for themselves. When it’s all ready.
A sidenote:
Much of my personal collection will have its permanent home primarily in the Russian Federation. My way of honouring my grandfather’s memory and my love of the people and culture.
I hold fast to the idea that normal family people are the naturally
occurring social order and would hope that they would find some
enjoyment from my work, regardless of where they live. The challenge
is getting access through the NWO maze.
I respect the visitors of this site and its administrator. We share
a common timeless set of values.
Good luck in your quests on a personal level.
If I may put into this discussion, there are a lot of good artists out there. I didn’t look at your links, Richard, but I know the song “note to God.” I believe that was written by a singer called Jo jo. She’s fairly good and her songs for the most part aren’t bad.
Another singer you might like is Jessie Ferrell. I especially like her song “fell right into you.” She is relatively unknown outside Canada, but has an excellent voice.
As for Lady Gaga, she could do a lot, but the media culture only pays attention to the crazy stuff. The crazier something is, the more attention there is for it. Look at her meat dress for the awards ceremony and all the furror over that…
My art is very non controversial. The biggest controversy so far has been, “people still use fountain pens?????” Yes, I make pens.
Sometimes I make bowls and vases too. Not much to be controversial over with that other than the shape and proportions…
I do admire those who can do what I call true art, and those who are extrordianry at it. I don’t consider this modern abstract stuff to be art. It’s not my thing…. I’m talking about classical art….
I persoanly don’t like Lady Gaga or modern singers like her. Jackie sings like an angel. To be honest I miss the 80s music or even upbeat 90s songs. I can symphasize with artist since maybe the Western world does not pay attention to art anymore. It seems if you have a message to say write books or make a film. For example whether it be the film or book of The Road, Lord of the flies, Lord of the Rings, Let the Right One In etc.
There has always been, to my way of thinking, a direct link between the individual beauty of a given people and the depth of social expression in their artwork. People of character and substance generally try to capture their emotional connection to the world around them and when life is calm, most forms of art flourish.
The art of less culturally developed people does the same thing but to a much different level.
When cultures spend the most time building societal norms, their artists tend to follow along. When those same cultures make war and become self indulgent, their artists take on a more antagonistic view, somewhat equaling the rage that they see around them.
Even in a time when we have so much technology and worldliness, anger and frustration are suppressing the quality of art being produced.
Of course this isn’t cut in stone but those trends do appear in several places throughout history.
It has also seemed to me that the greatest artists are often more than “merely” artists. You will find that there are often other areas of endeavor which these creative people seek out and attempt to excel at simultaneously.
There was a time, not that long ago, when a true artist could be found in a matter of hours by simply calling around to a few people who knew the ins and outs of that community. Now we have considerably more resources yet it could take days, weeks or even months to find a quality artist.
I’m with wolverine on most of the modern abstract art gracing the world today. Its so hard to find any number of people that appreciate it, that I can’t even find people that can explain most of it to me. The rest I simply find offensive, primarily because I know that some fool cut a check for thousands of (tax payer’s) dollars to place some obscure scrap of rusty metal in a courthouse entryway. But art is “subjective” so if I don’t like it, I just ignore it.
Sculptor, I enjoyed the links. (well the first two) I like music that makes me feel something but it can’t be anger. The times I spent in my youth playing and enjoying the world of music were some of the best of my life. The creative bug was everywhere and nothing was beyond our sense of exploration. Over the past few years, I have noticed very few bands, singers or song writers that stand out very much. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of talent out there, but I’ve just backed out of that area for a while. Most of the time I listen to music from the 50s to the 70s unless I feel like a dose of classical or big band, and always avoid disco or rap.
I wonder what it would take to be a relevant artist in this era and still find a following or be able to earn a living. For me, if I am ever to be “discovered” for my artistic contributions, it will most likely be after I’m long gone. Someone will go through a hidden room in my basement and find all sorts of obscure images and writings, then blast them off to Christy’s for a mega sale of “lost works”. (oh, but to dream such a dream)
Richard and Wolverine.
How many people don’t agree with you about Abstract art?
Probably nearly unanimous. Why? Not so much which is good
enough to make you feel it.
But there is a right way to practice it. Like there’s a right
way to sing. Yet how many great singers are there really? More
‘who’ is doing it correctly than Abstract itself. Jackie Evancho
could sing the phone book. Do you follow?
Probably it’s Modern art which most irritates people.
Another style pretend artists use. More than the art style
is; do you feel it? If yes, then it’s good for you. Like music.
The Vietnam vets memorial. Grown, war-weary men breaking down. Some
weeping like a baby in front of it. Just a wall with names. And soul.
And when a people is in touch with their people’s soul; then, it’s
much more difficult to deceive and suppress them as a nation.
Therefore, to suppress true art is another spoke in the wheel of attack on the family. Which is germane to the post on this page.
Being fed a load of lies. Then one day seeing it all for what it’s
taken from you and your life and your children’s(assuming they beat
the clock) country.
“Made you feel it did he?”, Casino Royale.
Therein lies the answer to your last question Richard.
Wolverine. “Not much to be controversial about”
In reference to your pens… you may want to have a look at
this link. Art with a Russian twist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faberg%C3%A9_egg
Make pens or bowls like these eggs my friend and you’ll be much more respected in the art world than Gagme whose contributions include signing old latrines.
What I say is try not to lose the distinction between lots of kids
not so knowledgeable about true culture and those who’ve been
around and know real art when they see it.
Buyers don’t buy old latrines, unless they want an expensive souvenir.
But they full well know it for what it is. A novelty. Not real.
It’s ironic that the one thing that Gagme wants is the one thing she can never have–true artistic talent. She’s a performer, who performs other people’s creative work. And no amount of NWO anti-family support for her attacks on the family can ever change that.
Which makes her, and many as her, pawns in the series of regretful puppets/feminists who very often wake up when it’s already too late.
Thank you for the link, Sculptor. I was shown pics of those Eggs by my grandpa and grandma when I was young. They are quite enchanting.
I am not that good at making things yet, but hope to get there one day soon.
My materials of use are synthetic stone, laminated colored plastic, or laminated wood. I don’t do much with metal in this regard. I do however do some work with precious metals. But that’s another story.
Here’s an interesting book whose author’s findings is certainly in agreement with this post: http://www.amazon.com/Erotic-Capital-Attraction-Boardroom-Bedroom/dp/0465027474
Just want to hear a few words where she openly calls feminism a deterent to a more successful career for women. Here’s the CBC radio Canada link to that archived interview: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2011/09/15/erotic-capital-the-power-of-attraction/
Hard to deny the truth about the truth. Social engineering is such nasty mind-bending plague as everyone who likes your site would agree.
Happy listening, reading.
An addendum to the previous post. Site owner could simply add this comment to the above post.
The author, Catherine Hakim, is clearly not up to snuf regarding the issue of whether wearing simple stilettos, nearly universally accepted in Russia is appropriate at work. However, it is certainly interesting that she does recognize that radical lesbian feminists do their best to encourage the general female population to be as unattractive as possible to men. Many ways to explain their motives.
This blog is exceptional in its overall perceptions of the truth about feminism. Perhaps even more than Russian women.
Today while working I heard two “Ah-ha” moments on the Canadian national radio. It would have been more fitting if the second more closely followed the second. The first was an interview with “bad men caused my mom to wither and die so I’m gonna hate the whole bunch of you for the rest of my manless life” Gloria Steinem.
The second is the news of an Ottawa, Canada, radio station contest for infertile couples to win a “baby”, with fertility treatments for the winner. The response has been overwhelming according to the station manager who had no idea that their contest would be sooo popular.
Now who, you may coyly ask, are the contestants? Hmmm. You all know the answer. Just a small drop in the ocean of feminist women now chasing the consequences of all those years of parading against “all the bad men” on International Women’s Day.
Staring down the barrel of one’s own childless lifetime in a permanent way, can and often does, chase down a philosophy of a fool’s paradise. For many in the West, the sad truth is no contest. No kids. And elderly adults spending their twilight years surrounded by their surviving self. One or the other has to go first.
Perhaps Gloria will call and visit.
“more fitting if the second more closely followed the second” should read:
It would have been more fitting if the second more closely followed the first.
In the U.S. a guy has to be leery of a woman, who’s time clock is ticking down. The guy may hear Love, Love, Love spoken to him by her, yet all he really may be to her, is a convenient, save the day, sperm-donor; and he could also be one step more, a convenient, save the day, baby sitting till no longer needed, sperm donor (That is he watches the kid(s) while she keeps her well paid job, and she is there able to establish a sound future and life for “her” kid(s), future man she will Love, and her self. Then when he’s no longer needed, due to the kids no longer needing a baby sitter, she can then kick him to the curb quick and easily [U.S. law]. And of course she can then hunt for her real man, a man that she will truly Love, and a man who is better established as in well established [$$$ yeah a nice cache of MONEY guy] ).
I really want men to know about this, save them from the thrill of it? Because I’ve already had the thrill of being a convenient, save the day, baby sitting sperm-donor. And luckily, my faithful Ex was able to pick up the slack with a better guy at work, while I did the sitting. You know, till it was time when they no longer needed me. They could send me on my way!
And the two now live happily at his home with their kids. Ah Beautiful isn’t it! It almost makes you want to cry.
My word of advice to all MEN in the west, search the globe for a place where women are still women.
This is not because we men want a slave, it’s because we want to find a Loving relationship with a woman; wow, imagine that will you, what ah dream. Sort of reminds you of the odds of winning a 300 million dollar lottery.
Dear Lord hear my plead…